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Base theories, pro snowboarders, and too many choices

13K views 41 replies 13 participants last post by  extra0 
#1 ·
Firstly, It was my impression that the majority of pro snowboarders still ride cambered boards. So which riders at what companies actually use these newly designed bases while in competition? With all these newly applied base theories out on the market, I'd be interested to know what the pros really prefer behind closed doors.

Regarding all of the new bases, each company has their own take on rocker, rocker with camber, camber with rocker at the tip and tail, flat, and any combination in between. When you add different sidecuts and different flex profiles the variables increase. I feel like there are a crippling amount of choices out there and it sucks because demo days are far and few between for most of us, and on top of that there is a huge lack of board reviews out there. And because most board reviewers aren't engineers, the conditions are variable, and the equipment attached to the board is different, I feel like the board reviews start to glom together in one big mass of confusion and cluelessness. And that's not a knock on reviewers, it's just that there's too many variables regarding conditions and technology and the choices are too similar.

The real solution is to be able to demo all boards :)
 
#3 ·
As an example, Travis Rice never used the normal banana tech and stuck with camber (with magne traction) until he switched over to the new C2 banana shape.

My favorite shape is the rocker/camber like C2 and never summer's RC tech. Try not to get caught up in the all the buzz words these companies throw around, a lot of the stuff is more marketing than it is function.

I don't think it sucks that there are so many different options out there though. Variety is a good thing and you just have to learn how to weed out the bullshit.
 
#4 ·
I own a Neversummer EVO-R and a Bataleon Goliath. Both great boards. I'm definitely a fan of NS's RC tech. There are two board techs I really haven't tried yet, and they are flat and camber between the bindings, rocker outside (like YES boards, and to a more mellow degree Ride boards, and the like).

From a philosophical standpoint, I honestly thing that too many choices can be crippling for a consumer. Check out this TED talk on the Paradox of Choice. It's pretty compelling. Barry Schwartz on the paradox of choice | Video on TED.com
 
#12 ·
I've done plenty of research and I don't really need a new board. I'm just interested in new base shapes and demoing boards really. Although technologies are similar across companies, the actual engineering is different. I feel like it's hard to decide what tech actually works the best especially given varying levels of ability. I've found your reviews to be pretty informative and you understand the technical side of things, but you're not the only reviewer. And you don't review every board that I'd like (and I don't expect you to, you're only one person).

Let me ask you something...with all the boards you've tested, do you ever find yourself over analyzing the ride because the differences are so subtle?

So you want less choices so it's easier to choose? That just makes no sense to me at all.
Not necessarily. Just watch the talk, give it some consideration, and chime in from there.

Also, aside from Travis Rice, which other pro riders actually use the technology that these snowboard companies are marketing the shit out of?
 
#8 ·
The real solution is to be able to demo all boards :)
That would be the best of all possible worlds (well, almost the best -- the time invested would be a huge transaction cost :() -- but the question is, how can you make an informed decision without demoing all, or maybe even any, boards?

Btw, I think a lot can be learned from reviews, if you focus on the most thorough ones and then extract their common elements. As a Ride buyer, I will say that Mr. Tidbit's reviews on the Ride Nation forum are extremely helpful. Not only does he describe the characteristics of the boards in great detail, but he posts photos of the actual terrain/snow conditions he and his wife ride on the boards being reviewed, and has even posted GPS read-outs showing his downhill speed.

The crucial first step in choosing among the bewildering variety of camber options is to RULE STUFF OUT. You don't need to consider everything carefully. Don't be stymied by the quest for the "perfect" board; it doesn't exist. Limit your more in-depth consideration to a few options that you reasonably believe will be suitable, and the task is much more manageable. In my case, I eliminated many potential options right away, just to cut the project down to size:
  • traditional camber -- I was coming from a camber board, so I wanted something different.
  • pure rocker -- For my all-mountain/freeriding needs, this wouldn't have been suitable.
  • eccentric designs -- Single-company specialties such as Flying-V and Triple Base Technology may be very nice, but I wasn't inclined to be experimental when putting up my own money.
This left me with two major groups of boards: flat or cambered in the middle with rocker on the outside, and rockered at the middle with camber on the outside. I chose to focus on the former group because I thought it would present the easiest, most predictable and comfortable transition from a regular camber board. I narrowed my search to a small group of 4-5 boards with similar tech, so I never felt adrift in a sea of choices. Someone else could have applied different limiting principles and arrived at a completely different set of final options. The key is not to flinch when restricting your choices.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Newbs and intermediate don't know...thus at the mercy of others.

Experts and pros select the board to match what they want to do and the presenting conditions/terrain with knowledge that there are often some compromises; and adjust their technique to take advantage of the design and when there are compromises.

Personally, a twin cambered, mag with medium flex...covers alot of bases
 
#18 ·
I think there are too many options out there as well...and I'll never get to try most of them. So tried and true camber is what I'll always ride. The few alt camber/alt base boards I've tried didn't compare to the response and stability of camber. I hate loose, spagetti, and drifty boards and have yet to come across a non traditional camber board that doesn't fall into one of those categories. So I give up
 
#21 ·
My Bataleon Goliath is basically a cambered board but with a plank in the middle. I think after all is said and done, camber is what I'll stick with after trying out some more stuff.

I think the clearest distinctions that can be made is that pure rocker is great for jibbing/buttering and camber is better for everything else. I'm sure that there's the right blend out there that can TRULY do it all, but I'm not sure any company has found that perfect sweet spot yet. It's going to take a while for "the best" shape to be agreed upon.
 
#26 ·
At this point I've tried everything except flat and the camrock type shape. Flat interests me. Matt of fact I'm looking at rides tech this year which seems very similar to k2s... nevertheless I think ride might have something with their prorize/prorize hybrid shape.
 
#33 ·
I just got my first day on my NS Legacy this past weekend and I'd say after the first 2 runs of adjusting to the alt camber from Rome Flag I was riding the thing exactly the same way I ride my flag...fast and aggressive. I actually felt more comfortable on edge with NS because of their sidecut and how well it holds an edge versus the Flag which sucks on ice eventhough it's a VT company who designed it. There is definitely more chatter in the Legacy than in the Flag but I expected that because I know the Legacy is both softer and has a shorter effective edge because of the Alt camber. The rocker also had a tendency to wander a bit when flat basing on a cat track but again I expected that because of the alt camber under foot. all it took was the slightest amount of being on edge to be just as stable on a cat track. After the first run of the day I was questioning whether I made the right decision, by the 4th I wasn't even thinking about it.
 
#38 ·
Eh I should have said that they "claimed" they rushed it into production.

Everyone forgets that a catalog released for SIA doesn't necessarily mean that is what the final production product is going to be. Look at the K2 Believer for I think it was last year they switched it up right before mass production to what they were going to release for the next season. Hell the Forum Holy Moly got tweaked after the samples were released from 3mm's of rise under foot to 1mm. Big companies work 2 sometimes 3 years out, hell my buddy Chris is doing the 2013 Burton/Forum graphics right now.

I haven't bothered to care about anyones 2012 stuff because until SIA most people will just be oogling screen shots from the Dewsh Tour and Gran Prix trying to figure out who is riding what. Fuck I saw Louie Vito today on the bus he wasn't riding his Celebrity Pro Model it was something I haven't seen before not even sure if it was an Omatic.

Riders ride what they like when I'm out riding with them we don't talk tech we're more concerned with who can spray who or push the other person over. I try and check business at the chairlift and ride for myself.
 
#40 ·
Riders ride what they like when I'm out riding with them we don't talk tech we're more concerned with who can spray who or push the other person over. I try and check business at the chairlift and ride for myself.
Business and tech aside, when you're out riding and you want to do a little bit of everything, what do you like to ride?

I think it's pretty dumb that companies are trying to make their alt camber boards feel more like camber...when they can just offer camber.
Well their overall goal there is to make a design that's "catch free" but still has pop. I'm with you though, I want to try the flat and camrock type stuff this year just to see what it's like, since I've pretty much tried the other designs.
 
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