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post #8 of (permalink) Old 06-19-2012, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
I pretty much disagree with all of your points (big surprise there huh?...)
I'm shocked!

but on this issue, we are in agreement. That whole Fast and Furious debacle is right up the with Iran Contra in my book!!! My biggest point of anger with Obama has been his stance on this growing police state and abuse of the Constitution. He pledged to do away with the anti Constitutional USA Patriot act that had turned the United States into an Orwellian nightmare. He pledge do stop Extrordinary Renditions of suspects to countries who use torture. He pledged to close Guantanamo. On every single one of these issues he has not only failed to do what he pledged but has actually made them worse. I think you may actually be correct in that this constant shift to the right and selling out of his base is a result of his inability to be a leader.
Agreed 100%. He is Bush Lite, in some situations he's Bush on steroids. He did indeed make the Patriot Act stronger, and it took Congressional republicans to actually prevent the wiretap law from being renewed. Ooh what a turn of events.

Still, Romney is a douche bag and what he did at Bain is fucked up. I don't want that kind of "leadership" for the country. Obama is way lesser of the two evils. Romney will be the final death rattle of our democracy! As I said, I am a Socialist but fully supported Ron Paul for the executive branch because I place our Constitution ahead of economics. Without that, we are not America and the rest of this shit does not matter.
And that is where we get back to disagreeing. Is Romney a douche? Probably hah, I liken him to the GOP version of John Kerry. But Romney's done some good and he has a track record. Obama is an empty suit. We need someone in there with conviction.

I know you're a socialist and understand your position. I am a capitalist but ... I'm not a laissez-faire proponent. I think sometimes the two get lumped together and that's not right. I'm a pragmatic capitalist which means I still think private sector economy is still key, and that govt. should be strong enough to prevent abuse, fraud but not so big it drags the regular economy down. I know you've given examples of some European nations (I think Sweden and France?) of examples of your market based Socialist system but I just disagree. Sweden is tiny so what may work there won't work elsewhere. France, no thanks.
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