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post #24 of (permalink) Old 10-09-2012, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by KIRKRIDER View Post
I prefer Obama to Romney. At least he promised to strike down citizen united?
Do you acknowledge the total obstructionism of the Republicans? How would you be able to change anything if he has to fight EVEN for stuff that would appear obvious?
Since 911 this country has turned into something else.... And apparently most americans like it.
The intervention in Libya was minimal...and we are not in Syria..

Gitmo. Still open.
Military tribunals. Still open.
Rendition. Still used.
Drone attacks. Worse.

Totally agree with you and it's a shame. But I'm convinced that Romney would do even worse. And suddenly he's popular because he can lie on television? Are you kidding me??
Like I said, it's 100% cool you like Obama better. That's fine, I'm not here to change anyone's minds. But do so knowing he is just like every other Politician out there. The difference between the two are not that much.

The reason the GOP obstruct everything now, is because of what the Democrats did the first year in 2009. They did not start out as obstructors. But the Democrats, so giddy off of Obama's win, and taking over both the House and the Senate, even owning the supermajority of the Senate for a few months, basically took a scorched earth approach.

When Republicans took over Congress in 1994, Newt Gingrich extended an olive branch in the House. He implemented rules that were going to give the minority party a little more power. He took over the House, and gave powers to the losing party.

When Pelosi took over in 2008, she eliminated those rules. She erased transparancy rules.

Then Obama telling the GOP, elections have consequences, I won, and locking them out.

Then America rejects Obama and the Democrat agenda. In 2010 was a sweeping mid-term election which saw huge gains by the GOP. America did not like what the Democrats were cooking. So they voted them out, and the GOP in. Why did America vote that way? To stop the Democrats.

Faced with all of this, of course the GOP is obstructing. Look back to 2009 and what the Democrats did. The GOP tried for a few months to work with them, but Dems were not having it. Remember, a filibuster Senate, a majority in the House, and the White House. Democrats did not need the Republicans, and they let the Republicans know it.

Here is an article to what I was talking about (Pelosi). Pelosi Erases Gingrich's Long-Standing Fairness Rules | Conservative News, Views & Books

That was 10 days before inauguration. The Democrats had their game plan before taking office.

It's a game, and it is what it is.

Plus Obama's notion of compromise is that you have to move all the way to him, and then they'll wiggle a little. There is often no meeting in the middle. And he's not the only one at fault. Republicans now have taken the same stance, there is no meeting in their middle either.

So to place blame only at the GOP is wrong. It's not that the GOP is obstructing. It's that both sides have staked their ground and NEITHER are moving. Remember the GOP own half the legislative body, the House. The Democrats own the Senate. The President doesn't make any law.

So if there is obstruction it is on both sides. The Democrats in the Senate are just as guilty of blocking the House GOP' initiatives as well.

Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
Jdang, on this we agree as you know. It is the reason that I supported Ron Paul. But, do you think Romney will do ANYTHING different than Obama on this issue other than be increasingly more draconian? I do not not. Obama is the frying pan and Romney is the fire. I am supporting the least bad option...sad that it comes down to that, but I feel stromgly enough about how much of a danger Romney is that I can`t do anything else.

Ron Paul is the one guy who held up the Patriot act renewal and expansion. After all that talk during the Bush years of the patriot act, when Obama takes office they all quietly renew the law every time. It got held up in 2011 and almost didn't pass, because of Ron Paul, who felt that the law violated our civil liberties.
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