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Rome Targa vs Burton Cartel?

17K views 32 replies 16 participants last post by  qwezxc12 
#1 ·
I'm getting Burton Ion boots and either a Never Summer heritage or a Lib Tech Travis Rice Pro. Which bindings will be a better choice? I mostly ride groomers and take the occasional jump. I've not very familiar with the terms like free riding and freestyle, etc. There is a lot of hard pack so I carve a lot.

Thanks
 
#2 ·
Can't really go wrong with either.

Freeride = I like to go fast and carve down the mountain. You want stiff bindings for this.

Freestyle = I like to hit jumps and spend time in the park. You want softer bindings for this.


Targas are very customizable in that you can change out the inserts in the ankle strap to make it soft, medium, or stiff.

Cartels are obviously good too, or else T.Rice wouldn't ride them on his Lib.
 
#5 ·
2013 Cartels are supposedly softer than in years past, the it still has its "7" flex rating as it always has.

If you KNOW you are carving a lot now and will focus on only that --> get a stiff binding, 7 or higher on the 1-9 flex scale. If you want to do anything else and keep on working on jumps/try to diversify your riding style, get something on the mid-stiff side, like the Genesis (6). Problem with super stiff bindings on jumps is the slightest miscalculation in posture/body movement can make your take-off all wonky since the bindings are so responsive. Same goes for stiff boots.

I ride Ions with my Lib T. Rice pro and I have Burton Prophecy bindings, which have been discontinued for the Genesis bindings. Perfect blend of jumping and carving ability IMO. Not so hot for boxes and rails.
 
#7 ·
2013 Cartels are supposedly softer than in years past, the it still has its "7" flex rating as it always has.

If you KNOW you are carving a lot now and will focus on only that --> get a stiff binding, 7 or higher on the 1-9 flex scale. If you want to do anything else and keep on working on jumps/try to diversify your riding style, get something on the mid-stiff side, like the Genesis (6). Problem with super stiff bindings on jumps is the slightest miscalculation in posture/body movement can make your take-off all wonky since the bindings are so responsive. Same goes for stiff boots.



Your setup is very similar to the one I was planning on buying. I am definitely getting ion boots and I was leaning towards the cartel bindings. For the board I'm stuck between the Travis rice and the never summer heritage. Your riding style is very similar to mine as well. Have you tried the heritage?
 
#6 · (Edited)
I had both last season, tried the Targas and then sold them when I got the Cartels. I'm not too into the customisation that the Targas offered. I'd rather board than tinker.

If the latest model are softer as reports seem to indicate I may have stuck with the Targas.

I really like the big stiff high back on my Cartels.

Metal V Plastic if you have a preference?

*Just to add there wasn't much in it, colour even played a part in my final choice.
 
#8 · (Edited)
I have not tried the NS Heritage. I own a NS Proto CT and that's what I do most of my riding on since, due to the crap last season, I've been in the park a bunch more. I only ride the T. Rice on days where there is no park and I know I'll be riding groomers ALL DAY or when there is a big dump and I want to shred pow or hit some cliffs or steeps.

The Proto carves pretty good for a blunt tipped park (jump) oriented board. If you think you may be getting more in to jumps, I would recommend the NS SL over the Heritage. The Heritage and T. Rice are good for bigger jumps, and are designed with big backcountry booters in mind, but if you are just getting in to jumps, the SL will make takeoffs and landings easier/smoother and will keep you just as happy in the carving department.

NS has great damping in its boards, so I find you can generally go a bit softer flex wise with their line. This meaning that if you want something in the 7ish flex range (like the T. Rice) you want a stable board for speed/carving. The NS damping is great at speed, so if you want to jump more, then go with something a bit more flexible, like the SL.

In addition, I really dislike the T. Rice in the trees. Since it is so stiff and longer than my Proto by 4.5 cm, it can be a pain to turn in the trees/moguls. The least couple cm love to catch on everything. The shorter and more flexible Proto is much easier to ride in the trees, another reason I tend to ride that board more.
 
#17 ·
How about if they have a machine which flexes the highback with a constant pressure until it snaps? You can then compare highback stiffness.
and yeah, there is 3% more torsional flex this year.

I know, I know, 3% sounds silly but seriously, if I was making it up, don't you think I'd use a bigger number?
 
#16 ·
I got the wife (5'11") a new (last seasons sale) setup this year, which included switching from 2010 Burton Lexa's (LG) to 2012 Cartels (SM)

I was really hoping that the Cartels would offer a higher and stiffer back to match the relative stiffness of the new board (2012 Rossignol Diva 156).

Glad to hear all the positive comments about them!
 
#21 ·
umm, how can you guarantee me anything when you are basing your reply on assumptions? What specifics do you have other than what I have told you. That's not very much is it? Again, I ask, is it the number 3 that bothers you? Should I have said 10%? Would that have been more believable?

3% is not something from the marketing department - have a look around, you won't find it anywhere. I have it from a guy who works in the bindings design dept at B. I'm no engineer and do not know what machines they used to get that number, but when that guy tells me it's 3%, I know its legit.

oh, and what do you think about the 2014 Cartels?:laugh: Didn't think Burton could release 2014's in 2012! :laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
#23 · (Edited)
What bothers me is the claim that the flex/stiffness of the binding or highback can be accurately measured or expressed in one number.
Is there one aspect in which the new Cartel highback is 3% stiffer than last year's one?
Are there others where it is more or less flexing than 3% the difference? Almost certainly...

Do you really believe that the highback is 3% stiffer torsionally as well as laterally...as well as in shock loading vs. gradual loading...as well as in breaking strength...etc.?
It just makes no sense.

And we have had the discussion on model year numbers before.
 
#22 ·
This.

You probably won't be able to tell the difference, but it's there. You guys may not work in science, but they do take time to measure stuff like this.

It may sound unbelievable, but companies often compare/contrast the current design with its predecessor.

Stoked on those regional love cartels....I wish they'd have a NikeID type of situation for 2014 where you can make your own.
 
#24 ·
This.

You probably won't be able to tell the difference, but it's there. You guys may not work in science, but they do take time to measure stuff like this.
So again, what did they measure?

It may sound unbelievable, but companies often compare/contrast the current design with its predecessor.
Not unbelievable at all. Most companies obviously do that. But they generally do not make claims like the one that "the newer model is 3 percent stiffer" - for good reason, because it makes no sense.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Burton probably has machines that test things down to those measurements. That's how engineers roll. They are stat monkeys. So I don't doubt in a lab someone may have measured a 3% difference in one measurement.

However as any factory worker will tell you, a lot of times those measurements don't mean much in real world applications. That's why a perfectly engineered product may fail in the field. Nothing replicates thousands of people using your product in the field.

So don't focus on the 3%. The message is, the flex according to the engineer SHOULD be similar.

Someone who has both in their hands can tell us.
 
#28 · (Edited)
So don't focus on the 3%. The message is, the flex according to the engineer SHOULD be similar.

Someone who has both in their hands can tell us.
My $.02... The torsional (twisting) flex feels similar between 2012 and 2014 despite the highback design difference. They both are hella stiff perpendicular to the board centerline - as in supporting a hard heel-side carve.



Disclaimer: my twisting and bending was not performed under rigorous scientifically controlled repeatable conditions, nor was my analysis peer-reviewed. My estimated margin of error is.... wait for it... 3% :laugh:
 
#32 ·
How are the straps on those est's? I know the reflex version has the leather react straps of the genesis and past diodes but just from pics it looks like the est binders have a similar strap to the regular 2013 cartels - is that so? or are your straps beefy leather ones? (ankle straps that is)
 
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