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post #146 of (permalink) Old 12-15-2012, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Capita2JZGTE View Post
You also asked what is causing these mass murders if not guns? I guess I hadn't mentioned that point because I thought it was obvious.
IMO the problem is clinically insane people going out and killing people. Which is a healthcare issue IMO.
I actually brought up this possibility somewhere else -- that it comes down to the lack of a social safety net in the USA. Of course, that would start the whole left wing/right wing/socialism debate up again. Anyway, it's a possibility but that's all it is until and unless it's studied properly. And unfortunately it looks to me from the outside that the gun lobby works to block any serious study of this issue, just in case it doesn't go their way.

Originally Posted by Capita2JZGTE View Post
Even if guns were banned you could never get rid of all of them. So thinking that getting rid of them will remedy the problem is absolute nonsense. Who cares how hard it is for a criminal to get a gun, if the end result is them getting a gun and mass killing people who were defenseless? The fact that it was hard for him to get that gun would have made absolutely no difference. He was dead set on doing what he did, and he would have found a way to carry out his plan regardless, and the fact that people ignore this is beyond me.
The trouble with this argument is that you're describing EXACTLY the situation in Canada (sorry to keep bringing up Canada, guys, but that's where I live so that's what I know). And the thing is, most of the time the crooks just kill each other. Yes, sometimes innocent people get caught in the crossfire (like this year in Toronto), but here's the thing -- if you count all mass killings in Canada AND include all deaths by collateral damage in gang hits, and compare it to mass killings by loonies ONLY in the USA, it's STILL way off in terms of absolute or per capita numbers. We're better off than you. I'm far less likely to be shot than you. Period.

Also, just to clarify something... Guns aren't BANNED in Canada. I can buy a pistol or a rifle or a shotgun or whatever. Maybe not an AK47, but then I'm not sure that's justifiable anywhere. But in Canada, I'm not allowed to carry it around in my pocket. If I shoot someone, "self defense" doesn't cut it unless I can prove that my life was in imminent danger, and even then I'd be in some serious shit. This does have some downsides --- like when we hike Seymour in the summer, it'd be nice to have more than bear spray. What's the old joke? How do you identify bear shit? It smells of pepper and has bells in it.

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