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post #270 of (permalink) Old 12-17-2012, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Bones View Post
In some cases like Timothy McVey, you might be right. In other cases, like the school slasher in China, he attacks 32 and NO ONE DIES! In a high % of "crimes of passion" or "heat of the moment" crimes, they don't find another method, they cool off or sober up. This is actually backed up the crime numbers in the US: "illegal" death rates NOT involving a gun are actually fairly similar per capita to the rest of the world.

I appreciate your sentiments for some level of gun control and I appreciate your desire to retain your 2nd amendment rights. I'm enjoying the discussion regarding the role of guns in American culture vis a vis the 2nd amendment but please don't undermine your argument by trying to say that the murder rate wouldn't change or might increase if you had gun control. There is not one shred of evidence to support this.

MY problem with all of this can be summed up by the following quote:

"One failed attempt at a shoe bomb and we all take our shoes off at the airport. 31 school shootings since Columbine and no change in our regulation of guns."
Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
Just to play devil's advocate here (I have established that I am not in favor of total gun bans), how then do you explain the fact that in places like Australia and the UK where guns are almost non existent, there are not mass murders being committed with knives and "Clorox bombs"? If what you say is true then there really should be the same per capita murder rate or at least attempted murder as the United States by other means.

Sorry bro but as much as I like my guns, I cannot ignore the fact that in every nation with strict gun control laws and few guns, murder rates drop drastically and we do not see murders by other means increase. The logical conclusion is that gun bans actually do work everywhere they are in place provided it is nationwide.

Trust me, I don't like having to admit this as a proponent of gun possession but I cannot ignore the overwhelming evidence. I hope that we can take a middle ground approach and tighten existing gun control laws and place limits on magazine capacities and possibly just say no more to AR-15 and AK-47 weapons and Glocks with 30 round clips. I would hate to have to give up my Sig P226 and in order to keep it, would gladly jump through hoops and accept 6 round mags instead of my 15 round mags. But, if I knew for a fact that giving it up would guaranty I would never have to see a headline like Friday's again, I would.
Watch what happens when Guns are banned in Australia - YouTube

Heres some info on the Australian gun ban. Seems that crime inflated. Controls ok.. bans will not work. You are trying to justify an event like Fridays as the vast majority. The voice of this country has become the minorities crying vs. the majority of law abiding citizens which seems to count less day after day. To say that banning a gun will eliminate an event like the recent is denial. How about putting proper security measures in place? An officer on the grounds would be a great start. This mass murder is an excuse for lashing out for someones political agenda. Comparing 1 mass murder which is the anomoly vs overall crime involving guns is comparing apples to oranges.
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