I hate to even ask the question, because I don't want to offend anyone...or accuse anyone of anything. But, there is a TON of talk around here about how awesome Never Summer boards are. It also seems that some of the members around here are pretty hooked in with NS. So, my question is this....are they really that great or are there a lot of people around here getting hooked up by NS or a combination of both??
I was looking at NS during a recent board purchase. I decided on something else because they didn't have a model that appealed to me, but the quality and service reputation seems good.
Here's the one problem I have: My GF came on this form a couple months back to ask about board advice. She specifically said she was looking for a mainly cambered deck.
Somebody suggested a NS Lotus. :dunno: It's like they didn't even read the thread or care, somebody was asking about a womens board and they just suggested a NS. I do see that in a lot of board suggestion threads too. I happen to like certain brands more than others, but I'll usually try to suggest a few different options from different brands.
The issue of people not actually reading a post before commenting is pretty much the SOP on most notice boards. In my experience that's where the fanboy stuff comes in. Fanboys are fanboys and that's just not going to change. Anyone able to get onto the interwebs ought to know the difference between a knowledgeable poster and a fanboy. And the person who suggested a Lotus when you were looking for a cambered deck just proves the point.
While I've heard positive things about NS from the people who are now on the design team (the thread of which I only first noticed today) I've honestly never taken note of any of them really pushing NS.
I ride a Proto CT because I'd heard of NS on this board and randomly found myself at a demo day. I'd never even heard of the board. Rode it, loved it. Bought it. Returned it. Bought the black one because, damn...
If anything the mods/admins putting up a thread specifically noting who is on the design team ought to address most of the concerns in this thread (rational or otherwise).
Were I a new member (as opposed to just being a noob) I have a place to find out who is on board (so to speak) with NS and I could then view their posts in that light.
over reacting? I am pissed because I am not on the team... LOL I mean seriously, there has to be a spot for a 40 year old, slightly out of shape Indiana resident with a proclivity for testing his helmet and ass pads at least as much as he is standing on the board.
What about dream pow? Is he going into threads an pushing NS without merit? How about NWBoarder and MysticFalcon?
I really don't see where some of you are coming up with these assertions. So far, everything I've been hearing is being committed by other members. Members that bought NS boards. This has nothing to do with the Design Team. This is pre-existing hype from people who purchased and rode NS boards.
Look, I don't have a problem if you disagree with this particular move from NS. What I have a problem with is people making false assumptions about Design Team members.
Every single snowboard company in the world has a bunch of randoms that get free / discount gear. They all rep their companies to varying degrees.
I take internet opinions worth a grain of salt. Unless I can ride with the person I have no idea how they compare with my skill level and experience.
Half of the riders on this list ride very different terrain than I. Others ride a lot less than I do. So their opinions, while valid, may not apply to me.
However, the only thing I strongly believe in is full disclosure. If you are getting compensated in any way for something. You need to discolose that fact.
I'm not saying anyone on this list would be biased in a review. Hopefully they'll still point out some of the flaws in the never summer line up. Hopefully never summer wont freak out and muzzle them.
As long as they say "Hey I'm an official reviewer for never summer here is what I think about this board" we are all good
This is my passion. I was handed an opportunity and welcomed it. I was reviewing boards anyway.
There's the kicker. I CHOOSE to spend my time on products and post my thoughts online. I CHOOSE to help riders anyway I can with the best of my knowledge. I don't make a living off this sport. If I don't get free boards from NS, I'll get them from work and other connects.
So when I'm spending my time trying to honestly provide help here and get falsely accused of my intents, I'm gonna lash out.
It's all good though. I don't do this for the haters. I pride myself on having helped a ton of riders here make a purchase they were happy with. Yea, not all were pleased, but that's a risk we take with Internet reviews.
I'm glad to be helping Never Summer improve their line. They are a solid company. Call me biased for that comment if you want.
I like the low key graphics and the durability of the boards. The only thing I dislike about NS is all the boards feel heavier than the competition. It really does not affect my riding though.
I still ride my 09 Burton Supermodel a lot too.. I would of went with a new one but the ICS system is retarded (Not so much the system, but the fact that you have to pay extra for EST Bindings, they're pulling some Apple shit on us! :thumbsdown
I don't think anyone is really hyping it up, I think it has a lot to with with the age of the forum members as someone else stated. I've seen all those guys rave over other boards.
Those four members were hand picked by ME based on MY personal experience with them as riders and industry professionals. I asked them to become members here to post their reviews for the benefit of YOU the members. I have my own website that I can easily use and not put up with this whiny crybaby bullshit. These people are proving YOU a service and before they have posted their first review, you are shitting all over them.
What is ironic is that for all the tinfoil hat conspiracy kook whining and accusing you are all doing, so far the only "shoving down throats" or attempted silencing I see going on is from you people attempting to shut up the people who want to give reviews. Show me one single thread where any supporter of Neversummer has attempted to silence the voices of other brands.
Those four members were hand picked by ME based on MY personal experience with them as riders and industry professionals. I asked them to become members here to post their reviews for the benefit of YOU the members. I have my own website that I can easily use and not put up with this whiny crybaby bullshit. These people are proving YOU a service and before they have posted their first review, you are shitting all over them.
What is ironic is that for all the tinfoil hat conspiracy kook whining and accusing you are all doing, so far the only "shoving down throats" or attempted silencing I see going on is from you people attempting to shut up the people who want to give reviews. Show me one single thread where any supporter of Neversummer has attempted to silence the voices of other brands.
Hang on. Snowolf, I'm not sure if you're directing most of that at me but as I said in earlier posts, it has nothing to do with why they were chosen. I congratulate you and other pre-SBF/NSDT members. I'm trying to be helpful to you ALL by expressing my opinion on how it might appear. That's all. No whiny cry baby over here! And, I'm certainly not "shitting all over them." I don't even know who they are yet.
I will question how exactly their service benefits ME as a forum member to have yet even more exposure for a brand I may not be interested in on a forum where the brand is already heavily peppered throughout. At this point, I have more knowledge of NS than I ever was interested in knowing. Which is FINE. I enjoy learning new things. And I appreciate the time members take to respond and post their personal opinions and reviews on different gear.
But if you want to know what would help out other members here including myself? A SBF Women's Board Testing Review Team
Oh, that would be sweeeeet! I had a bit of a hard time researching women's boards, since I read (on here I think it was) that some are just "men's boards sized down", and as such don't work quite as well for a lady as a board that was specifically design with her in mind.
Sorry, off-topic. I don't want to be a part of this :storm: It is what it is. Carry on.
I'm not singling you out or being hostile Eat. I'm not being hostile to anyone. Actually, the reverse is true in my mind. I'm getting hostility as a Design Team member.
Countless comments insinuating that we are going to biased because of free gear. Yet over and over my point is ignored that myself and others have access to other free gear and have had that access for quite some time. The other point being ignored that a lot of the other team members were pre-existing NS customers.
I do agree some bias will result. That's human nature and you can't knock anyone for that. You even have bias as a person who purchases a product because now you have to deal with the fact that you spent a good chunk of change on the product. In fact, it could be argued that people who pay for their gear are much more prone to bias. Which actually supports my prior point that the NS hype is from customers, not the Design Team or NS themselves.
Hopefully some of you can understand this and still treat our reviews like you did before we became a part of the NS Design Team.
By the way Eat, I'll happily join your review team so go on ahead and send me some gear.
Okay cool, Leo, thanks. I understand you're passionate yet sensitive about being viewed as biased when your bias is a natural type that we all have to some degree (because you genuinely like a product). I never thought the reviews will be skewed based on "free gear." I know better than that, I have good friends in the industry, and I have a pretty good feel for you all pre-DT members to know your personalities a bit. Again, congrats to you all. It must be cool to be part of something like that, so enjoy the ride.
As for being a part of my review team? That depends on how much room and time you and Mrs. Leo have for 1200lb prey animals :laugh: Lmk, I'll arrange transport:thumbsup:
Neversummer is NOT paying for this in any way that I am aware of. I, as an admin made the the decision to create the subforum and the responsibility for that is mine and mine alone. I invited Neversummer to use this platform because I see it as beneficial to Vertical Sports by increasing web traffic. This format allows for free and open discussion of the review process which is what Neversummer wants. They could have selected a design team and had everybody post reviews to their website and moderate those reviews as they see fit and disallow debate but they didn't.
The decision was mine as admin and representative of Vertical Sports not Neversummer. I don't represent Neversummer in any way nor do any of the team members so any perched hostility is not the responsibility of Neversummer.
I made this decision and I stand by it. You people have a choice to make; either accept it and give it a chance to work or leave. I will say this however, just as we closed the politics section because the bickering became overly problematic, with 2 clicks of the mouse, we can disable the entire equipment section so that no one reviews ANY board so its fair. Keep pushing the issue and trying to silence honest review and that is exactly what will happen.
Now I am pulling into the Meadows parking lot ride so later peeps!
Oh and for the record, I'm riding my Gnu Billy Goat today!
If that is the case, I hope NS is paying VS for that level of exposure. If not, I'm going to recruit a Team for my business and assemble them here!
And if that is true, then call it what it is: Advertising.
Which is FINE. If it's marketing using an unbiased test team, design team, whatever it's fine. But call it what it is then if it's not what it appears to be.
I have to say the hostility in responses is NOT helping their cause imo.
As for the other highlighted text, it seems hostile (to me) that some are being told "to leave" if questions or comments are made on this merger. The threat of shutting down the Equip Review forum seems a little extreme? Did I miss a post where someone was trying to silence honest reviews? Haven't gotten that sense from this thread.
I made this decision and I stand by it. You people have a choice to make; either accept it and give it a chance to work or leave. I will say this however, just as we closed the politics section because the bickering became overly problematic, with 2 clicks of the mouse, we can disable the entire equipment section so that no one reviews ANY board so its fair. Keep pushing the issue and trying to silence honest review and that is exactly what will happen.
Sorry wolf I am going to disagree. As a bystander who could care less about any of the previous post above, I would say your point there is completely invalid.
Yes it is a private forum. But if vertical sports is interested in this as a business, then shutting down equipment review is equivalent to suicide. Political forums (which I never did visit) serves no purpose other than a traffic generator. Shutting down equipment reviews, and it more than halves my interest as a member to be here.
I think this is a good idea! To me, it's all about "user-led innovation" (which I have studied quite a bit in my previous academic life...if anyone is interested read Prof Eric von Hippel at MIT for more on the subject...but I digress). I think using social media like this is a great way to connect with people who are using the boards to gain insight into continuously improving them. I would like to perhaps see some more weekend-warrior input but aside from that, can't see what the problem is. If you think it's a way to crassly sell more boards then don't read any of the threads or reviews. Simple as that.
I'd actually like to see Ride, Rome, Union, Burton etc. do the same thing on here too!
Yea, seems the leak issue is not such a leak after all. It certainly wasn't supposed to be visible.
But my point stands about making a public post asking for permission to create a focus group (which is what this boils down to being).
Again, what's so wrong about the private method used to pick DT members? That was what Wolf's new position on the DY entailed. It used to be Vince reaching out to me and others. Now he has some of that load taken off his hands and into Wolf's.
The fact still remains, quite a few existing members on this forum were selected and asked if they would like to be a part of the team. They all had a choice to say no.
What would have been different in a public announcement? They still would have selected the same group except they would have had to deal with spam and lots of it.
Please don't act ignorant Binary. You and I both know either outcome would still have created this same drama-laden result.
What is your issue anyway bud? Why are you so adamant about this subject? Can't say I'm used to you being this way.
1) Free product will ALWAYS influence somebodies opinions/bias. That's just a fact of life. If you disagree you are just being ignorant. You may not even be doing it on purpose, but subconsciously things are skewed.
2) Tact. Both sides of this argument have used very little tact in the way opinions have been expressed. The way i read this thread it came off as though the "Design Team" members came off with a sense of entitlement because of their fortunate situation. That is not going to sit well with the casual reader. Tact should also be used in recommendations of gear to those searching for answers to questions. The whole "shoving NS down people's throats" way of doing it is not tactful. Again, to the casual reader that is exactly what most of this forum does.
3) Reviews to this forum are completely worthless, period. One man's junk is another man's treasure. There are infinite variables to each and every persons thoughts on a specific peace of equipment. Reviews (or feedback) to a company alone is/can be beneficial, thus part of the role of the "Design Team".
4) Kind of unrelated to the actual topic at hand, but internet forums have just gotten out of hand.
I missed this. What I just interpreted is free product will always influence your opinion. Sorry you can't be objective. Assuming everyone has this problem is ignorant.
Who the fuck is 'entitled'? If I weren't on a NS I'd still be riding one of my dozen other boards...it's not like I have an advantage over another snowboarder, we're both fucking snowboarding.
Reviews are worthless says you. I could find 1000 others who think completely otherwise. Casual readers have already asserted so in this thread. I actually read all the reviews. Fuck I'm going to buy a BSOD based on a review here.
And even though there is definitely nuance with riding style and preference of product, I'm finding I'm having very similar experiences with others who've posted about the same shit I'm riding. Almost to the same exact language I planned on using in my review. You're blowing shit way out of proportion here. I kind of feel bad you're this upset.
Like I said previously, they wanted to get us time on the boards so we could start taking notes for our reviews while at the same time not having people hounding us about next years product while this years were still in stores. I don't see what you're not getting here.
If this is really an argument you are going to make then you should not have been mentioning or posting pics of the 2014 gear until you were ready to do your reviews.
I knowwwwww this may be unpopular, but there are two common ways to silence (or at least, reduce) criticism over this:
1. Pay retail price for the board, or
2. Return the board after a review period
There's a lot of equipment review websites that have similar 'no net benefit' policies to ward of criticisms of funding biases.
But really, if the testers say that they can be objective to the best of their ability, that's good enough for me. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and everyone has biases, and we just try to minimize them, acknowledge them, and so forth. People reading the reviews have every ability to be skeptical, so it's not like people HAVE to subscribe to the reviews written.
I just think that both Never Summer and the testers are honestly trying to do something positive.
The same guy who ripped on me for no apparent reason then got called out for his own error telling me I'm not being tactful? Oh, right, you trashed me on two different forums for nothing. I respect the shit out of BA, but seriously, you can go swallow one you cronie. The only person that acted entitled here is YOU. This is me losing my tact now. Got a problem with it? Tough fucking turtle shit.
I'm not entitled to crap nor do I ever act like something I'm not. I wouldn't be shocked if ALL of you were better riders than me.
As for your statement of reviews not meaning a thing due to variables? What's interesting is when all these varied reviews start having points of agreement across the board. If the majority of reviewers, no matter how different their style, say that a board lacks edge hold... Something gives don't you think?
But why am I telling this to "The Intern"? He knows it all already.
Easy. I did not call you out here right now. No need to get so defensive over some internet exchange that happened some 2 years ago. I honestly don't remember the specific exchange we may have had, and quite frankly i could care less as that is water under the bridge. So if you are still upset i apologize. A lot of things have changed over the last couple years.
Well if you happened to not say anything than my apologies, it's hard to remember exactly who says what over such an expansive topic covering multiple threads.
Bottom line: everyone is butthurt they dont get to be part of A-Team, BA is butthurt because no matter what he says, hes a creepy old dude and Never summer boards are the shit.
So, if another brand like Burton or Union (since they already have a presence on these boards) approached VS and wanted to do the exact same thing -- dedicated sub-forum, hand picked reviewers, etc -- would that be allowed or encouraged?
Why not? In actuality, that would be awesome. You'd have the popular brands pre-filtered for you. There are some section this forum could condense or even get rid of in my opinion to make room.
Or have a review section with sub-sections for brand specific ones.
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