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post #99 of (permalink) Old 01-31-2013, 06:13 AM
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I felt i was pretty fair. I didnt say that you wouldnt allow discussion on anything else, just that neversummer gets rammed down your throat here. And just remember, its not just me saying that, its not just me "accusing" you of that. "Its generated by your fellow forum members and riders" who have come here looking for advice and information and wondering why on earth every other thread and recommendation seems to be 'have you thought about neversummer?'

I didnt start this thread, its page 9 by the time i commented on it. My original comment was going to be similar i guess, but seeing that whole project thing was somewhat discouraging.

To be honest, your reply is rather ridiculous, i didnt call you names, i didnt single anyone out, hell i tried to be fair and make the point that bias exists in all of our recommendations and maybe we should accept that before going off the deep end. However, this site has for a long time been behind neversummer, just as EL has been behind capita/c3. The fact is that your relationship has altered to a much more formal and concrete one. Youd be daft to pretend otherwise. Why not just accept its changed and take responsibility and discuss it instead of attacking people for not sharing your opinion. You suggest youll somehow not promote neversummer over other brands? Well, time will be the judge of that, surely?

Look, ive no idea why youre so upset about this, your own site and your own forum wanted to ask you a question why theres so much neversummer hype on this forum, but instead of just saying "a lot of the members here have had a long standing relationship with them (read your own blurb from the aforementioned thread) and we've had a nice collaborative relationship for a few years", im getting some kind of personal attack because i used a phrase that rather accurately describes the actions of a great many of the people on this forum.

As an example, I just participated in a thread that you could fairly summarize as "my girlfriend doesnt like her neversummer, what the hell is wrong with her???" She'd ridden it on two different occasions, she didn't like it either time, and people convinced him to have her try it again! Insane. It wasnt like she didnt have her own preferences, it was clearly stated she liked her old board and she much preferred the demo board she used instead. She just didnt like that board. Its seriously crazy. And yet there's the poor dude being told to get her to try it again and that it "just takes a while to adjust", as if she has no idea what she could possibly want! I genuinely couldnt believe what i was reading here. Its important, and ill be making this point a lot. Im not accusing you or any of the other people on this program of telling her to stick with the neversummer. Im not even saying that the neversummer dudes on this forum told her to stick with the neversummer. Its just fellow forum users.

Just remember, im no one special. Im not in the industry. I dont have an agenda. Im just one of those "fellow forum member" who happens to disagree with your opinion (for that is what it is) that this association is going to be bias free. Im just someone who comes here looking for information on things like the new tech for 2014 and finds 14 pages of people arguing about whether neversummer graphics are good or not.

As for your other claims, im afraid youre not really the judge of those. Time will be, though. I look forward to the reviews crucifying R+C as an outmoded tech that delivers none of the playful looseness of rocker and none of the bite, energy and response of camber. Im sure they'll be there because you have what, 15 people all with their own opinions, riding styles, and preferences on what they like and what they choose to ride in their free time. So clearly not all of them will like, let alone LOVE R+C/vario. Im absolutely sure it wont be a bunch of reviews saying that these boards are all great boards! (with minor insignificant caveats). Because that would be massively unrealistically, right, and show nothing but complete bias on your behalf, right?

As i say, you dont get to make the decision on your own bias, the people reading your reviews do. And part of what will factor into that decision is the extremely close relationship between this site and neversummer youve now just gotten into, im afraid. You might not like this, and you might then needlessly lash out and attack the people who disagree with you by throwing out completely non-biased and objective language like "bitching and moaning" and "whiners", or calling them "childish" and telling them they are "full of shit", but theyre entitled to consider the matter suspect now that the relationship is so... intimate.

As for the big accusation that im suggesting there is an orchestrated bias. I certainly said no such thing. I suggested a bias had formed, that it was orchestrated is a complete straw man and an attempt to dismiss the point (as well as any other comments disagreeing with you) as being paranoid and absurd. Maybe a more accurate reading and explanation is in order, since it will help you make your case better if you attack my actual point and not the one you yourself created. I know what i wrote, it was clear and direct. I made no insinuation as to WHY the bias came about, i merely said there was one. Thus any attribution as to orchestration is a fiction created by your good self (Though one might stir the pot and ask why youre being so defensive?)

Maybe its your baby. Maybe it was your idea. Thats cool, but please reflect a little. Of COURSE this affiliation will have consequences on the perception of the neutrality of the information given on this site. You would have to be actually crazy to think it wont. Your whole drive shouldnt be to randomly abuse people because they disagree with you and then revert to name calling and straw men arguments to make your point (or worse, telling them to leave the site). Instead perhaps explain it rationally, explain the potential pitfalls of the closeness of you relationship on the sites neutrality objectivity, and then be open to the charge and recognise the possibility that it is right that we should be critical and that calling it into question is an appropriate and rational thing to do.

Again, im no hater, im just a normal forum user who has found the neversummer bias on this forum at times PERSONALLY unbearable. The 14 pages of people arguing about neversummers graphics was tedious and frustrating. It was equally frustrating to find that as soon as the neversummer stuff got moved, the 2014 thread ground to a halt.

And its important you get this point: Im not suggesting that the hype is orchestrated or that other brands are banned from being talked about, just as im not suggesting that it was that admin on this site suddenly restricted information on the 2014 thread causing it to limp on with about 1/4 of the previous momentum. These are straw men arguments. I am however suggesting that there is a massive amount of discussion on these forums, (orchestrated or otherwise) about neversummer that accurately charactarises the description of having "neversummer shoved down your throat". Indeed, you spend a great deal of time attacking that point, and then immediately agreeing with it by explaining away the fondness of neversummer on this site as just fellow forum users (ive used this a few times in this passage rather deliberately by the way) passing on the stoke because they LOVE THE BOARDS and want to recommend them. So we are both saying the same thing? I guess so.

You probably cant see the wood for the trees here, but your own arguments and your own claims are biting you in the rear end here dude. Im not asking you for a rethink, the die is cast, but try and accept that the decision to integrate neversummer into your site quite so heavily will have consequences and will affect the perception (and maybe the full) impartiality of the site as a source of genuine and unbiased information. This is not a ludicrous accusation when you tie yourself in so tightly with one brand... and also now have a section of the forum exclusively devoted to that brand and its product.

Last edited by ippy; 01-31-2013 at 06:58 AM.
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