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Scorpioned while flat basing and now I can't anymore

32K views 152 replies 35 participants last post by  jtg 
#1 ·
So after a few times out this year I was flat basing on terrain that wasn't steep with no issue, especially cat tracks. Then once out of nowhere, I scorpioned HARD, not even going that fast. The problem is I don't know what I was doing wrong. So now I am very shy of flatbasing, even slowly on flat terrain.

I have a C2 BTX (aka RC on Neversummer) board.

Is there some trick to doing that while guaranteeing you won't catch an edge? I was way past the point of catching edges in normal riding so it was a little surprising. Yet I see other people flat base bombing steep black sections. And obviously you need to be able to do this at decent speed for most jumps. Usually when I try, I start feeling my back-end get a little squirrely and feel like I narrowly missed another scorpion. What am I missing? Keep all your weight on the front foot?
 
#96 ·
if im reading it right then what you guys are saying is that while you may be "flat based" there is some type of pressure going in one direction or another ...so youre never truly flat. does that make sense?
 
#97 ·
It is impossible to have a perfectly flat base. The ground is uneven, the board is not perfect, the human body does not have the fine motor control to adjust pressure that precise. Now, a 50 micron section of graphene (single layer of carbon atoms) that can be damn flat!

The true problem is what we seem to term 'flat-base', I bet if you did a quick survey on the hill, most people would consider even having a slight edge flat-based ... but hell, most people think they are carving.

It's also not like there is an international snowboard standards commission that decides this stuff, cause most people don't really care that much. I think most people would accept that flat basing is where the bulk of your base is in contact with the snow and you are actively trying to keep it flat.
 
#101 ·
aw jeez... hate to be 'that guy'...
but i like riding flat based. its fast, its fun... its kinda like the diff b/w 180s frontside and blind side, it really feels better (to me) to go blind...
im not saying i ride long distances w/out pressing either edge at all but i do press hard and flat with my front foot and, as little as possible, lightly / occasionally use my back foot for little corrections
the key is keeping your nose pointed in the direction of travel, if your board is pointed where your going its not possible to catch an edge
yah the ground can push you around and if you don't anticipate it you might pivot too far, catch and scorpion, but if your watching your path and you know how gravity will affect your momentum then its totally reasonable to ride pretty much flat az possible, with only a little bit of micro adjustments.
i think its like landing blind airs cuz yah you gotta trust the board and momentum, it does feel like you give up some control, just relax and let gravity take charge, if theres any slope you'll end up pointed strait down the fall line and thats fun!
or if its a flat cat track, like the traverses around RMR, you go further faster, dont need to unstrap to skate 50 metres like the rest of the jibbers.
 
#102 ·
I know it's just nit picking but technically if you're putting pressure on the front of your board wouldn't it mean that the back of your board is raised slightly? I do this also, but I don't consider it being totally flat based ... Just playing devils advocate
 
#103 ·
if you're putting pressure on the front of your board wouldn't it mean that the back of your board is raised slightly?
noooo.... not so much, pressure on my front foot, yah, like 60% to 40 on the back foot, the boards all on the snow, just lighter on the back so the inputs can be feathered lightly when needed but yah the main focus is on pressing the flat front foot...

I don't consider it being totally flat based ...
i thought you didnt consider totally flat based to be practicable anyway!

j/k i agree its semantics but yah no there is for sure a difference b/w slightly holding an edge, and pressing flat as ya can and letting the terrain and gravity move you, just adjusting to keep the nose pointing strait
 
#106 ·
Personally, I have found the discussion thought prolong and generally a great catylist to take a really close look at my own riding and do some self MA.
'thought provoking'?

+1

When I try to self-analyze, I frequently discover that what I think I'm doing isn't exactly what I'm doing. I may think I'm doing everything right, but in reality some details are off. Discussions like this help paying close attention to all the details.
 
#108 ·
It's funny that snowolf said that, because I did the same thing Friday. There was some pretty long, only mildly graded run outs, and I found myself thinking about this thread and really paying attention to what my board was doing. I pretty much had the same conclusion as Eastside and Snowolf. One CAN ride completely flat, but the board will get a little squirrely if you don't use pressure to ccontrol it. To somebody watching, it would appear the board was completely flat. I think if I had been distracted I would have scorpioned as well. If I was to squat all the way down, lowering my center of gravity, that would certainly help, but I think lots of people, when flatbasing, stand pretty much straight up.
 
#110 ·
Whoa dude! No need for that tone and no place for personal attacks in this subforum. ETM has strong opinions as do you, but his comment was not an attack on you; it was his exasperation over a topic I guess he feels people should stop talking about. A position I disagree with and I agree with your position about riding flat but please, lets keep this friendly bro....:)

And just to pass on my position about topics in general. If you are tired of the topic being discussed, politely excuse yourself from the conversation but don`t comment about others wishing to continue the discussion. It is rude to try to brow beat others into stopping the conversation.
The fact that he's now contributing nothing and just posting that I needed to keep going mixed with Argos comment could easily be considered a personal attack. I was having a mature discussion which seems to be above some people's heads. I understand your point but at some point they are just as guilty as me. It's annoying to wake up to people bitching about me calmly contributing to a topic .
 
#111 ·
Your trying to prove something that your wrong about. There are multiple people that have told you tha they can flat base. Your just mincing words to try to be right about something you can't do well. Flatbasing at 50-60 mph isn't easy to do on a regular basis safely without riding a lot and having good overall board control. Ive ridden over 100 days this season so far and flat base daily at least a few times. The OP asked about flat basing and he was answered but you just wanna keep saying your right, it's not possible.... Sorry, your wrong.
 
#112 ·
Do you understand what devils advocate means ? Also, I never said it can't be done. I just said it makes no sense. I'm allowed to have an opinion, FWIW, I didn't restart this conversation.. I'm just trying to add food for thought. Multiple people have also commented that after going out and paying attention, they DO tend to at least apply a little pressure to one edge or other . You need to relax man, it's the Internet. The entire point of a forum is discussion and debate .
 
#113 ·
Funny... we had the flatbase discussion only yesterday at the aprés-boarding (to avoid further pettifoggery: I'm aware that COMLPETE flatbase is as impossible as drawing a PERFECT straight line, even if you use a sharp pencil and a ruler, but I guess the intention of the OP was not to discuss physics ;)). So for the purists: lets assume that if I use the term "flatbase", I mean as flatbased as physically possible with a moving object on a never complete even underground ;)

A guy of the pack (riding a Custom X) stated he never flatbases, cause it's too dangerous whereas my husband claims to do it very frequently, no matter what board he's riding (both are riding 20years and ride like hell). I assume, they know what they're talking about and the quintessence for me is, that its a very personal decision.

I only flatbase longer stretches since this season (my 10th season in this resort). Never trusted the camber boards I rode so far enough. With the Flagship I ride now (its said to be a hybrid camber but actually its just flat between the feet :dunno:) I gradually got closer to flatbase longer stretches, cause it simply gave me the feeling that it's ok to do so. I guess, the board shape is an important variable. Sure, an expert might be able to savely flatbase every board, but thats again a puristic discussion.

You shouldn't force yourself to flatbase. I'm not good in giving technical details... it should FEEL ok to do so (yeah... women and feelings, I know :rolleyes:) Began with only several meters to sound the reaction of the board and gradually increased. Now its about 20m flatbased - little adjust of direction - flat again. Always riding low and centered and very concentrated, feet relaxed but ready to react immediately, reading the terrain well in front of me and prepared to put a little pressure on an edge if the terrain changes. I only do it on runouts with good sight/overview and flat non chopped up snow to gain speed.
Take it easy and dont rush.
 
#116 ·
Just an additional variable to throw into the fire is the question of how much fresh snow is on the ground. At one extreme you have the polished hardpack which is extremely squirrely, at the other extreme you're trying to "flatbase" through a foot of powder (beyond that even the quotes don't work). I think that a certain amount of fresh on top of the hardpack dampens the squirreliness and helps keep the board aligned with the direction of travel.

So now you all have to start all over, taking this into consideration. :laugh:
 
#121 ·
There's probably alot of validity to the statement SnoWolf made.. The conditions probably do have alot to do with the overall discussion. I ride less than ideal conditions 90% of the time and that does have alot to do with my riding style.
 
#124 ·
I also rode today and paid attention.. Conditions weren't bad considering its mid march on the east coast.. Basically a mixture of hardpack over some ice and the occasional loose granular. Flat basing without some kind of pressure was next to impossible to do and feel any semblance of safety. Unfortunately the day got cut short because my girlfriend caught her heelside edge and took a nasty spill on her tailbone.

Probably alot of this has to do with the type of board you're on too.. I love my Evo, and I regularly hit 35mph+ on it, but that's when I'm holding a tight edge and really working the board. It's simply too soft to feel stable at high speeds without alot of edge pressure. I can't even imagine trying to bomb a hill on it totally flat.. As it is I know that I am constantly compensating for the terrain by adjusting pressure.
 
#130 · (Edited)
Probably alot of this has to do with the type of board you're on too.. I love my Evo, and I regularly hit 35mph+ but that's when I'm holding a tight edge and really working the board.
I'd say, the equitation could look like that: Terrain+condition * board shape * riders ability+confidence = flatbase safely

Assume the same terrain+condition (same resort 10 years every weekend, long runouts with flat hardpack in the morning, softer in afternoons, about 25° at the beginning, no bends, good overview, you need a certain speed to reach the snow-bar) AND the same rider (I'm rather precautious, no daredevil like the guys), the board shape variable made a big difference to me.

- On Custom X/Liberty Carbon (camber): never flatbased, too afraid to catch an edge, never reached the bar (no idea about the speed, had no app then).
- On Raptor (hybrid rocker): no way, the rocker felt too wiggly, only reached 43mph: walk to the bar.
- On Flagship (technically hybrid camber but actually flat): now flatbasing commonly and with confidence (up to 50mph): even had to break at the bar :D

But if you add a bit of riders ability+confidence, the board shape will be compensated, a.s.o.
 
#125 ·
I don't like flat basing much, always keep a slight edge.. I never have problems getting past flat spots. I'll do it every once in while to play around but IMO it's not a good idea.
I have a 154 Evo, it feels fine at speeds to me but I'm much more comfortable bombing runs on my Burton supermodel. Love my Evo though, such a playful board.
 
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