Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums banner

Avalanche at Loveland Pass Colorado. `

16K views 104 replies 38 participants last post by  linvillegorge 
#1 · (Edited)
Authorities: 5 people buried in Colorado avalanche - CNN.com


Cnn just posted this but 5 people are buried. Rescue crews are on their way.
I hope everyone makes it out ok. Sending positive vibes and well wishes.



Edited to add: I hope that no one from this board were out there:(


There is already a thread in Backcountry travel. Mods can you merge the 2 or how do I delete this one?
 
#62 ·
I’ve been taken aback a bit to read (here or on other sites) comments like "wake up call" or "how could this happen, they were experienced / they all had beacons…?".

Don’t know the US/Canada statistics (Switzerland is only a tiny country; this 12/13 season so far: 21 fatalities in avalanches, 14 backcountry, 7 off-piste; a disturbing sad, but rather normal number), and I’m aware that different regions have different snowpack, but some statistics will be true everywhere. I add them here, as further eye openers.

The survival rate rapidly declines after 15 minutes. A beacon won’t save you. Even if you have a beacon, you very likely won’t be found fast enough. It only enhances your survival IF there are people already on-site that can immediately begin to search.





This graph always makes me sad. I frequently hear people say "hazard is only moderate, it’s safe to go". No, it’s not safe, it’s only less dangerous. There are so many micro environments on a hill. The majority of a region might be “moderate” but some (sometimes tiny) spots could still be very dangerous. It’s nature, it’s not ordered, it’s not linear, it’s very heterogeneous. You can only try to analyze what you see, try to make a good estimation and hope that your guess is right. Even the most experienced ones can’t predict an entire hill.

(graphs are from the Swiss Institute for Snow and Avalanche Research: SLF > Prevention > Avalanche accidents
 
#63 ·
Neni, more fatal accidents happen during "moderate" conditions than any other rating. That is the full on green light condition for many people. It's a scary rating in my mind because it usually means it is not easy to trigger a slide but if you do it is of the more destructive variety. Deep slab, pull th rug out from under you. Not the new snow, wind, soft slab variety. This is where reading the avalanche report daily can really help with your decision making process.

What I am riding this year at this time is much different than the previous two seasons. Some similarities, but there are also tweaks to my approach. I seriously hope I am making the right decisions. There is probably something I could be doing better. Seems like there always is so look for it.

For the record the avalanche danger on Sunday was considerable at and above tree line going from North to East to I believe Southeast aspects. Below tree line it s as moderate. It sounds like they were crossing the Sheep creek drainage almost at tree line. Again though this not fully confirmed so don't take too much stock in it. I have also read they were spacing out. This went so large that there is no way you could be spaced apart enough.

You can bet this is going to be broken down big time. We are still talking about tunnel creek and this one hurts just as much. As wolfie has stated the best thing we can do is read the final report as to what went wrong. File it in your head and when similar conditions present themselves to you, recognize it and take appropriate actions to avoid it. That is the best way to honor our fallen brothers. This of course is easier said than done.



Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App
 
#67 · (Edited)
This is where reading the avalanche report daily can really help with your decision making process.

What I am riding this year at this time is much different than the previous two seasons. Some similarities, but there are also tweaks to my approach. I seriously hope I am making the right decisions. There is probably something I could be doing better. Seems like there always is so look for it.

As wolfie has stated the best thing we can do is read the final report as to what went wrong. File it in your head and when similar conditions present themselves to you, recognize it and take appropriate actions to avoid it.
Preface: I'm a novice BCer who will be getting into splitting next year, so take this for what it's worth.

That's what makes the point that Snowolf dropped in the middle of his post so important (and scary).

"How many times have we come home to our families as a result of luck rather than judgment? "

It's not always something you can plan for, evaluate, or even learn from. You might be doing the incorrect thing and get away with it 15 times in a row. You are conditioning yourself to think you are doing the right thing, based on your own observational empirical results. You might just be getting lucky.

Then the 16th time out, you continue to do the wrong thing (thinking it is right), and you trigger a slide. Only chance decides whether it's fatal or not. This is what worries me most. I can learn everything I need to know, but you still don't know.

******************************

EDIT: This was mentioned earlier in the thread by Treegreen, but I thought I'd repost here after googling, for those who are interested:

Evidence of heuristic traps in recreational avalanche accidents by Ian McCammon (pdf)

Also:

Human Factors and their Influence on Avalanche Accidents by Ian McCammon

The Psychology of Backcountry Safety by Mike Richardson (pdf)

Blog: Human Triggered slides Jan 31 - Feb 3 by Bruce Tremper
 
#64 ·
First, RIP and prayers for the families.

Second, this is scary stuff. It sounds like these guys were experienced and taking the correct steps to stay safe. I've never been in the back country but I've been thinking of trying it. How can a rookie stay safe and make good decisions if people as experienced as this got caught?

Finally, what are some good avalanche training sites to get the basics? I rode the lift with some ski patrol that were going to do avalanche control at Crested Butte and found the conversation interesting. I'd like to learn more about it.
 
#69 ·
Let me say that if you are doing the incorrect thing 15 times in a row, you are either not using your education or just don't know. It is a learning experience out there for sure. One incorrect decision that seems rather small, can magnify into life taking events in a heartbeat. Literally. There isn't whole lot of room for error out there. Fortunately there are some very good and easy to follow practices that can limit the chances of you making that mistake. It still doesn't hurt any less when something like this happens though.
 
#75 ·
Yes Snowolf, you're right, in that way, it is a wake up call. Was rethinking all our runs this season. Did we ALWAYS stay careful? Did we ALWAYS choose the safest run, not in the slightest seduction to take a nicer one? Was it luck? Keeps me thinking... I'm almost glad now that the season's over. These reports make me very sad... All these other negligible gear questions (also of me) become so insignificant in the shadow of such a tragedy
 
#80 ·
I know that when I am hiking up for a run, I rarely have my airbag in deploy mode. There is always the chance you can accidentally set it off. So the handle is secured and I often don't have the thong strap attached to the waist belt. The thong is a thin strong piece of webbing that is used much like a leg loop on a climbing harness. This is too make sure the pack doesn't get ripped off. The waist belt has a climbing like harness closure. I don't think this group thought they were under serious exposure at the time of this accident. The Sheep Creek drainage itself sounded like it was a concern. They probably didn't think the slope above them was going to break 600 ft wide. This is all conjecture. I was not there. So I could be completely off.

Second, if you read the accounts, it is pretty clear they were strained through trees. An airbag is probably not going to survive that. They work much better in open terrain than in terrain with obstacles.

At least one of them did have an airbag. I do not know if it was deployed.
 
#82 ·
It does depend on the one you have. ABS uses the velcro strap to secure it, mine is an RAS system and the handle is zipped up in my shoulder strap when not in use mode. Either would be hard (impossible in my case) to deploy when secured in their own fashion if caught in an avalanche
 
#84 ·
^ We're just speculating here.

The only survivor at Stevens last year was hit by the avalanche while waiting her friends, in the trees. Wasn't at the bottom, but definitely not at the crown either. She managed to deploy. I think it may help to deploy even at the bottom - if just to create some cushion and space around you...

Mods - maybe we do need another thread on this, please move if needed
 
#85 ·
I put some thoughts down on this but it hits so close to home I don't think I'll ever be able to convey what I'm thinking. Like I said earlier we lost some great people and the event is a tragedy. Let this serve as either a wake up call or a reminder to just be cautious out there, I know I've slacked and been on the lucky side to come home. I won't let that complacency ever effect me again.

Beyond Boundaries: The Loveland Pass Avalanche «
 
#86 ·
Mike is an acquaintance of mine from my Colorado trip this year, him and Gary were the first two I thought of when I heard about this accident. I feared the worst when I heard one who died was a local Jones rep (I knew Mike was a Jones rep). His first hand account is pretty hair raising. I hope I never have to be in his position.

Between this slide and the one near Vail Pass earlier, I'd be scared shitless to be out in the CO backcountry right now. How ridiculously big and DEEP both went shows that deep slab instability. Everyone wants that late season pow day, but that heavy spring pow on top of everything puts a lot of stress on those weak buried layers. Two weeks ago I found myself thinking that we dodged the big bullet this year, no Tunnel Creek-like incident, no avy deaths here in WA. In two weekends between WA and CO, that all changed.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top