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steep hill: carving vs. sliding

54K views 49 replies 12 participants last post by  ShredLife 
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#1 ·
I'm a second year rider, and fairly skilled at this point. but i noticed someone talk about the difference between carving and sliding to make turns. The last time i went out on a mountain I've kept that piece of information in mind. And I have some problems with 'carving' in uneven terrains, and very steep blacks diamonds. I couldn't help myself but to start skidding my way down. So my question is, was i just not able to maintain control while carving due to the steepness/uneven terrain or is that task pretty much impossible(or perhaps my lack of skill)?
Also it seems that while i was 'carving' down blacks and some blues, my speed would build up too rapidly and i'd have to make a few skids to slow down.

If you guys can share with your personal experiences or some tips it would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
 
#3 ·
'carving' in uneven terrains, and very steep blacks diamonds

If you mean carving in chopped up snow...depending on the wetness/heaviness of the snow it can be difficult and it helps to have a relatively stiff board to blast through the mashed potato chop in the pnw. If you mean uneven terain...some terrain, i.e. moguls are impossible, pillows you just sort of blast and rollers would be more of absorbtion with knees. Steep blacks with fresh deep pow are the nutz. Anyway its probably just getting used to speed, terrain reading skills and having confidence in your skills and trusting your board....sounds like you just need more time and skills and a good freeride board is the ticket. However it is important to stay in control and not fly recklessly down the hill.
 
#6 ·
Also it seems that while i was 'carving' down blacks and some blues, my speed would build up too rapidly and i'd have to make a few skids to slow down.

If you guys can share with your personal experiences or some tips it would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
In a true carve you won't be gaining any speed control from skidding or pivoting the board. So when you are carving and want to keep your speed at a comfortable level focus on the shape (like a C not a J)and the number of turns (more=slower) you are making.
 
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#20 ·
Yea Grizz!! this is the shit mate.. There are lots of ways to skin a cat, there are just better and more physically efficient ways to acheive that goal.

Great point and we see it all day on the hill when instructing... thanks GRizz:D
 
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#8 ·
It's funny because I was going to ask pretty much this same question.
I find myself at the top of a steep hill and I watch others just sort of straight line it down with no problem at all but as soon as I start to go, I find it's too steep for me to really maintain control and end up skidding down the top part until it begins to level off a bit and I can finally start to carve.

My question was going to be, what can I do to improve on this? I have yet to be able to carve down steeper hills/maintain speed because as soon as I start too, I kinda get nervous and skid to slow myself down.
(I hope I'm understanding the term skid right where it's just maintaining one edge and then the other kinddd of like you would if you wanted to just stop but instead keep going on the opposite edge.

I also justt am now starting to get better at carving in general, always lead with the front foot right?
 
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#9 ·
Hi ekrina, that is a very common question!
Wow, thanks a lot for that explanation! After reading it, I realized that I had the definitions of carving and the dynamic skidding turns kind of muddled...I didn't know there was a difference! And what you just explained is exactly what I am tryingg to work on :) ...the going down a hill straighter, faster and in a more fluid motion.

I will definitely be working on that.

Also, I have always wondered this and some people answer me differently...when turning am I supposed to have my body weight toward the front of my board and on my front foot or back? In other words, what foot is supposed to be doing more work? I tend to control the board with the back foot and lean back more. Is this incorrect?
 
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#12 ·
weight forward and pressure are two different things and are often used interchangably and are confused with one another..

I like to use the term "pressure" as opposed to weight.

We flex, extend, amd rotate when snowboarding, and we use edge angle, pressure distribution, longitudinal flex, and torsional flex to make the board do what we want it to do.. Movement equals performance.
Think Pressure not weight.... forward that is..
 
#13 ·
Really watch leaning back because, as you now know, the turn starts at the front. Well, if all your weight is in the back, it`s like a pickup truck with all the weight loaded at the tail gate and the steering axle is up off the ground. You have zero control. By keeping the front of the board loaded, you have really good control response.
It's cool to see the different ways people have to describe the same situation. This was a new one for me.

To cover the same issue, I talk about why a FWD car handles slippery roads better than a RWD car.

Are guys preprogramed to relate everything back to motors?:D
 
#16 ·
In digital, a signal is broken down into 0s and 1s so every thing has a value. Either on or off. Which is similar to skidded turns or the way you might navigate a mogul field.

When I think of analog, I am thinking of the sine wave you might see on an oscillator. Looks just like the path of a perfect carve.
 
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#19 ·
My theory is that we tend to make analogies based on other things in life that we do a lot. For me, I drive a truck so I naturally will make analogies related to driving.
agreed. one of the advantages of driving analogies - especially when teaching adults - is that most students will be able to relate having driven a car themselves.

alasdair
 
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#21 ·
I use the analogy of riding a bicycle and that steering movements start from the front wheel not the rear wheel...you would not steer a bike from the rear wheel would you?? it seems to work well, and helps when we imagine riding that bike (snowboard) down a single track trail.. this teaches people to look where they want to go, and this helps with alignment issues and spatially orienting noobs when they are getting comfy just sliding on the snow withe a stick strapped to their feet.

"Teaching should be such that what is offered should be perceived as valuable gift, not as hard duty"
A. einstein

The more real world analogies we can use to tap into students learning pathways, the more succesful you will be as an instructor, and all your studenst will have more success and those ahh haa moments..
 
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#22 ·
haha, thank you everyone for these awesome analogies! i didn't know one could come up with so many ways to describe the motion.
they actually really helped me visualize what i am supposed to be doing.
and im going snowboarding this weekend, so i'm gonna tryy and put all this advice to use!

thanks again :)
 
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#29 ·
I suppose technically you are correct...most of my new students are not going fast enough when initiating to make counter steering movements efficent or necessary. Im a high speed turn on a bike then yes, counter steering would be the most appropriate techniwque, but not a snowboard. I am trying to get across to my students how important the leading foot is.. as opposed to the rear foot. LETS HERE SOME MORE FEEDBACK ??
 
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#32 ·
i think you are overthinking a simple concept. oneplanka... and i are talking about analogies which help beginners understand the importance of front foot steering. on a bicycle you steer with the front wheel and the analogy, in this context, holds up perfectly well. the counter-steering issue is irrelevant.

alasdair
 
#33 · (Edited)
I can see both sides but factor in the speed, we were talking about a beginner turn under about 5kmh.

The biker would not be able to counter steer at 5kmh. They haven't built up enough momentum for centripetal force to keep them upright when they tip the bike over. If the center of mass has no offset to the tires you will be steering in to a turn not counter steering.

Under 5kmh a bike steers like a tricycle or a snowboard. Once the bike is up to cruising speed, I can see how a little counter steer at initation and a lot of CM offset will be the major turning components.

CIFEX am I right in thinking that counter steer is just a twitch or flick right before leaning the bike over? Because once the bike is tipped over then you will be steering in the direction of the turn.
 
#35 ·
CIFEX am I right in thinking that counter steer is just a twitch or flick right before leaning the bike over? Because once the bike is tipped over then you will be steering in the direction of the turn.
Yes. When you flick the handlebar opposite the direction you want to go, the momentum of the frame keeps pushing forward but the traction of the tire causes it to "trip" and fall into the turn.
 
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#34 ·
I raced mountain bikes for a few years and never did I initiate any turn with counter steering. Counter steering is used when the rear wheel(s) slip. I initiate a left turn on a bicycle by turning the bar to the left and if my rear wheel slips, I then counter steer to the right to keep the bike headed in the intended direction of travel.. We use counter steering the same way whether it be two of four wheels... Counter steering does not translate well when comparing the performance characteristics of a snowoboard vs. a bicycle or motor bike. I even conceptualize using counter steering on a bike to initiate a turn... anymore thoughts???
 
#36 · (Edited)
You are confusing countersteering with another concept. I do know what you're referring to. (when a car is in a drift and you steer into the direction that it is sliding to maintain control). I'm not sure what that is called but the concept I am talking about only occurs on two wheeled vehicles with round tires. You do in fact initiate a turn using countersteering while mountain biking, but only on hard pack.

Here is the wikipedia article. Perhaps it explains better than I do.
Countersteering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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