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Old 12-05-2011, 04:48 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by civic2tegg View Post
Yeah I want to set them up in the shop I just need to make sure the straps are all good for the life of these things.
I won't speak for Leo, he obviously has tried a lot of gear and works in a snowboarding related career. His advice is usually sound and fairly well thought out. That being said, I sit in a cubicle and get overpaid to surf this forum.

I *believe* most people's issues with the straps stem from how well it actually fits around the toe of their boot. That being said, you'll know if you have an issue. Union wouldn't be a prominent company in the snowboarding world if they didn't have something worthwhile to contribute. Don't stress too much.

Companies that produce crap are often flamed quickly. That's one of the many joys of the information era. If next years Raiden or Flow lineup was complete garbage, low quality parts, super flimsy...people would discover it within a month or two and their sales would drop off the map. Luckily that's rarely the case these days. With the amount of testing and engineering, it's usually not a problem. If it became one, you'd like see a recall or replacement before you were left in the cold.

/end rant
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:13 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Here's the clinic video. You can hear Johan release the toe buckles and they POP loudly. Again, they're supposedly set up right but they still don't operate smoothly. The smooth glides on my Burton's release and ratchet like a dream and never stick, slip or catch. And this is coming from somewhat of a Burton hater (trying to be less biased). They just work like butter. Go into any board shop and just play with the ratchets. They're noticeably stickier than other designs and when temperatures drop you're going to compound that problem.

Sorry Leo, did not mean to hijack this thread. But this "Ur doing it wrong" attitude about Union pisses me off. They make good products but have some real problems they need to address. I love the Contact Pro baseplate/high back ... it just needs Burton's buckles and straps.
ok, you've owned a couple different pairs of unions, correct? Did your toe ratchets smooth out over time? I agree about the rachets not being as smooth as burton or flux right out of the box. However, i've owned three pairs of unions, and each of them got much smoother over time... my toe ratchets release as easily and as smooth as my burtons or my tt30's.

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Also, their two channel discs tend to blow up when landing flat which happens a lot if you are doing lots of park riding on urban style features. The two channel design has the advantage of being 3D compatible but it's less strong than the four channel design. I've had to replace them a lot, hence the experience with the C3 support.
You had to replace them because you 'blew them up' or some other reason? If so, what were you doing when it happened? How many pairs are you talking about?
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:24 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Look, some of you are completely missing the point. I never once said, "Union is crap. Their entire company sucks and their bindings swallow."

Before I made this thread, I was super interested in Union bindings because of how fanatic Union users here used to be (They no longer ruin threads about other bindings thankfully). Almost every single thread about Flow bindings were completely derailed by Union followers. Other binding threads were full of "Union is the best hands down" which resulted in me and others asking them what previous binding experience they have and most replied with something along the lines of "Old Burton Customs"...

Yes, I openly admitted I was antagonistic about Union at first. It really wasn't towards the company. My whole argument is, they are a binding specific company. They use the DuPont plastics which are by all means high-grade and durable. But why is it that they cannot solve the toe strap issues? Their old bindings had issues with the toe strap and ratchets, and the redesign which was supposed to address this continue to be plagued by poor fitment and sticky ratchets.

Then you have a company like Rossignol which is very Ski orientated. Even this ski orientated brand makes toe caps that fit snug and ratchets that do not get stuck.

This is just honest criticism and the opinion of a few gear testers like Dave and myself. Don't think of it as "Union fucking blows". Think of it more as, "Come on Union, we know you're capable of designing a better toe strap and ratchet."

/endrant
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:26 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Leo View Post
Look, some of you are completely missing the point. I never once said, "Union is crap. Their entire company sucks and their bindings swallow."

Before I made this thread, I was super interested in Union bindings because of how fanatic Union users here used to be (They no longer ruin threads about other bindings thankfully). Almost every single thread about Flow bindings were completely derailed by Union followers. Other binding threads were full of "Union is the best hands down" which resulted in me and others asking them what previous binding experience they have and most replied with something along the lines of "Old Burton Customs"...

Yes, I openly admitted I was antagonistic about Union at first. It really wasn't towards the company. My whole argument is, they are a binding specific company. They use the DuPont plastics which are by all means high-grade and durable. But why is it that they cannot solve the toe strap issues? Their old bindings had issues with the toe strap and ratchets, and the redesign which was supposed to address this continue to be plagued by poor fitment and sticky ratchets.

Then you have a company like Rossignol which is very Ski orientated. Even this ski orientated brand makes toe caps that fit snug and ratchets that do not get stuck.

This is just honest criticism and the opinion of a few gear testers like Dave and myself. Don't think of it as "Union fucking blows". Think of it more as, "Come on Union, we know you're capable of designing a better toe strap and ratchet."

/endrant
I get what you're saying but your opinion means a good deal to me. You've tested more bindings it seems then I will ever own. So if you say for $200 there are better choices it's stupid for me to think otherwise. Especially since whatever I end up with I would like to hold onto for a few seasons.
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:37 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Union doesn't have durability issues. That's a complaint that's rare. They do use very high quality plastics from DuPont... Zytel. This stuff is bomb-proof. The Unions should definitely last you more than a couple of seasons. They also have lifetime warranty their baseplates and heelcups. This isn't limited, they replace it for the life of your bindings. So break it over and over and they will replace it over and over.

I say try the Unions in the shop with your boot first. Make sure it fits your boot good. Otherwise, you're going to be fishing for frankenstein parts. That's another option. Get some Ride Toe straps and put it on the Unions. I've seen many Union users do this.

Another factor to consider is the lack of canting in Union bindings. I'm a huge fan of canted footbeds because I rock a wider stance and have a bad left knee.

I'm not trying to steer anyone away from Union. Just giving you points to consider. Canting isn't for everyone. People that have boots that fit the bindings well have no issues. But for the rest of us, there are better options.
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:48 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Leo View Post
Union doesn't have durability issues. That's a complaint that's rare. They do use very high quality plastics from DuPont... Zytel. This stuff is bomb-proof. The Unions should definitely last you more than a couple of seasons. They also have lifetime warranty their baseplates and heelcups. This isn't limited, they replace it for the life of your bindings. So break it over and over and they will replace it over and over.

I say try the Unions in the shop with your boot first. Make sure it fits your boot good. Otherwise, you're going to be fishing for frankenstein parts. That's another option. Get some Ride Toe straps and put it on the Unions. I've seen many Union users do this.

Another factor to consider is the lack of canting in Union bindings. I'm a huge fan of canted footbeds because I rock a wider stance and have a bad left knee.

I'm not trying to steer anyone away from Union. Just giving you points to consider. Canting isn't for everyone. People that have boots that fit the bindings well have no issues. But for the rest of us, there are better options.
Very cool! I'll check it out tonight when I pick up my board. Thanks.
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:52 AM   #67 (permalink)
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This is a complete threadjack...

How did your hand/finger heal up, Leo? I remember you saying you messed it up, but I can't remember how. Without more coffee, the search feature has rendered itself overwhelming.
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:57 AM   #68 (permalink)
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LoL Nef...

Thanks for remembering and asking about that. I still have the metal implant on my 5th metacarpal (bone to pinky). I did tons of PT on it so that helped get most of my strength back. Still get arthritis pains though and I think that will never get better. Rather, worse

But I can ride!
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:06 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Glad you're healed up. I know how arthritis pain goes. It's never fun, but it's way less annoying being unable to ride.

Civic: Good luck with the gear hunt.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:28 AM   #70 (permalink)
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i have not tried the 2012 forces and will not be buying any this season for my new board but i would like to defend the so called horrible ratchets and toe straps of the 2011 forces. i put over 100 days last year in france on forces and never once had the toe strap come loose or slip and the ratchets where fine, yes not the smoothest on the market but not anything to worry about. i think boot choice makes all the difference with the unions. i was wearing vans aurora and they fit tight. i got lucky and the french guy that sold me my setup knew his stuff and ran me through all the bindings that fit with the vans and which wouldn't. he laid out 6 boot binding packages that he thought had the best fit and where still the style i was looking for.

leo- what would you run on a NS heritage with vans boots. bit limited to brands at the resort i'm working but can get burton, flux, flow (been thinking either cartels or nxt) think they also have the tt30?
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