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Old 12-08-2011, 06:40 AM   #171 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beschatten View Post
if its a matter of convenience, buckling two straps in is not difficult. christ.

let me break down some basic physics for you. in a situation where the rider's force exertion is constant in both situations, one large step-in flow binding requires more force for the same amount of control. or in this case of a constant force exerted on the single large band wrapped up your foot, less control compared to two small straps (a normal binder). why? because the force exerted on the two small straps is more force per unit of measurement. meaning more control. for less force.

i dont need to own a pair to figure that out. neither did my friends. theres a reason why the entire market (aside from flow) uses two straps.
some of your arguments are just silly.

Yes they were designed for convenience and marketed to riders that way. One lever is easier than 2 buckles. Not all riders ride to "mellow out"

the force from either strap is to hold you boot to your board. With tre pressure from either strap a little less and you will get some looseness any more and you will just compress the outer shell of your boot. That will not translate into the force exerted.
If I strap in tighter my body still needs to generate the edge pressure for control not
"more control. for less force." I don't even get that

Just because eveyone doesn't use this design doesn mean its bad "theres a reason why the entire market (aside from flow) uses two straps." the industry has seen tons of re-designs along the way in all aspects of boarding good and bad.

I just don't get your arguements
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Old 12-08-2011, 02:59 PM   #172 (permalink)
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To our Friend Beschatten, who said:
"i dont need to own a pair to figure that out. neither did my friends. theres a reason why the entire market (aside from flow) uses two straps."
I agree, it's called a patent.
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Old 12-08-2011, 03:33 PM   #173 (permalink)
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He claims the physics prevent proper control, yet guys like Scotty Lago can shred righteously without a problem. If the physics were so dynamically different, they'd choose another binding.

Also, apparently I need to "mellow out" because I have bad knees and it's much easier for me to not have to sit down and stand up 40 extra times a day. And for the record, I'm quite mellow and I do take my time on the mountain. I'm not making speed of entry a "must have" feature of Flow's. Yeah, it's convenient, but there are other great factors.

And finally, your grasp of "common sense" and "basic physics" are questionable at best. You have yet to show me sound reason to back up your arguments. And yes, I read your gibberish about "force per unit of measure"...but until I see some documentation or statistics to back it up, it's simple hogwash. I could proceed to try and explain the power triangle and how the highback is actually hooked to the center of the baseplate to account for the difference in fit that Flow's afford. I have a feeling it would be time wasted, as you have yet to see and/or understand simple logic and things like preference.


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Old 12-08-2011, 08:14 PM   #174 (permalink)
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Like most things its personal preference.
Some people love flows some don't.
Either way they are not "worse" or "better", they just are what they are.

You don't like them? Don't ride em. You like em, ride em.

This whole argument has been repeated on this thread several times over. lets move on.

I personally would say they might not be the best for a total beginner who is not very sporty to start with because they are not easy to get into until you can stand with some stability on your edge.
Other than that In see people shred perfectly well in flows and other bindings.

As with boards the rider is far far more important than the gear.
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Old 12-08-2011, 10:52 PM   #175 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Nefarious View Post
He claims the physics prevent proper control, yet guys like Scotty Lago can shred righteously without a problem. If the physics were so dynamically different, they'd choose another binding.

Also, apparently I need to "mellow out" because I have bad knees and it's much easier for me to not have to sit down and stand up 40 extra times a day. And for the record, I'm quite mellow and I do take my time on the mountain. I'm not making speed of entry a "must have" feature of Flow's. Yeah, it's convenient, but there are other great factors.

And finally, your grasp of "common sense" and "basic physics" are questionable at best. You have yet to show me sound reason to back up your arguments. And yes, I read your gibberish about "force per unit of measure"...but until I see some documentation or statistics to back it up, it's simple hogwash. I could proceed to try and explain the power triangle and how the highback is actually hooked to the center of the baseplate to account for the difference in fit that Flow's afford. I have a feeling it would be time wasted, as you have yet to see and/or understand simple logic and things like preference.


Keep coming back for more. This is cheaper than movie tickets.
Scotty Lago is an world class athlete. He could do the same shit on any bindings. The same way Jordan could play ball with running shoes. Jesus Christ he's sponsored by them. It's marketing. I could shred the same on rentals as I do on my current gear. My shit just makes it easier.

Documentation? Open up your son's physics book. I didn't say less control, I said more force is required because there is more strap. Try and push a refrigerator by applying your body weight against the entire surface area. It probably won't budge. Or if it does, you'll apply a lot more force. Now try pushing it by the corner. Chances are it will fucking move. With less force. Derp derp, it's called pressure points and they are more precise.

And on the note of hogwash, I could just easily dispute anything you claimed that attributes flows as great bindings the same. There's no documentation. An opinion is not scientific. Your word of them being great bindings is no more validated then me saying they are too expensive for what they offer. Because there is no "documentation" behind it.

If you want to drop 289 dollars for Lago's NXT-AT or whatever the fuck it's called go ahead. In that price point you could get much better shit. In the 150-200$ pricepoint range, Flows just don't cut it.

The same way Leo didn't like Unions and came to the conclusion that for the money, Union just isn't worth it. I'm dishing the same shit. I could do this all day cupcake.

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Keep coming back for more. This is cheaper than movie tickets.
I agree. It's like railing a floppy vagina. Except with your cheesy grin, I lose any and all forms of arousal. Like I mentioned before, I wasn't knocking on your fucking preference. But since you're so eager to keep this up, lets go.

Last edited by Beschatten; 12-08-2011 at 11:01 PM.
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:33 AM   #176 (permalink)
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I just bought a pair of Flow's! The heel of my Salomon dialogue boots won't clear where the hi-back bolts to the base. I guess I will stick with my 5 year old Targas. They have always rocked and are being pulled out of retirement again!
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Old 12-16-2011, 07:32 PM   #177 (permalink)
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I love the Flow NXT, had them for three years & prefer them over any other binding. I am an intermediate rider.
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Old 12-16-2011, 08:50 PM   #178 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beschatten View Post
why are you dodging my comments? since when was it ever relevant to strap in at lightening fast speeds when were out on the slopes trying to mellow out and enjoy the sport. if its a matter of convenience, buckling two straps in is not difficult. christ. i never knocked on their performance (because as you mentioned, i never tried them) but flows only real "pitch" to them is this step in.

on a more related noted towards flows, let me break down some basic physics for you. in a situation where the rider's force exertion is constant in both situations, one large step-in flow binding requires more force for the same amount of control. or in this case of a constant force exerted on the single large band wrapped up your foot, less control compared to two small straps (a normal binder). why? because the force exerted on the two small straps is more force per unit of measurement. meaning more control. for less force.

i dont need to own a pair to figure that out. neither did my friends. theres a reason why the entire market (aside from flow) uses two straps. now unless flow somehow got around that, i'm going to stick with that. because that's just plain common sense.

edit: i'm not knocking on you, or your preference to flow; i'm knocking on flow.
You just took statics huh? Here's some more KNOWLEDGE for you to break down. Look at the cable triangle, wierd huh. Force DIRECTLY from the TOP of the highback is redirected through a braided steel cable into the middle of the baseframe. Oh noooo, more performance than pushing through a plastic highback down to a heelcup then through the frame as with traditional bindings.

Straps? I own Flow and Burton. Despite the terms we often use to describe the strap, its not bigger. Very similar surface area. The comfort advantage is the way the I-strap interacts with your boot.

Oh and your analogy is flawed. Yes its harder to move a fridge that way, but with full contact what's eaiser to pull on? A thicker rope or a thin cable? Oh wait, neither. But one if for sure more comfortable. I studied physics in college, major in fact. Nice try.

Now, all the "theory" aside, a properly set up Flow IS quicker edge to edge than traditional bindings. The cable triangle works.
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Old 12-16-2011, 10:54 PM   #179 (permalink)
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Now, all the "theory" aside, a properly set up Flow IS quicker edge to edge than traditional bindings. The cable triangle works.
Not quicker when they lay shattered in the Jackson hole trees somewhere. Flows are cheap pieces of garbage.
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Old 12-16-2011, 11:07 PM   #180 (permalink)
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nah, i went comp sci. as my major.

bought nxt-at flows off craigslist for 120 bucks. shit was responsive but the dampening sucked. felt cheap.
i'll stick to other binders.
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