I know this is an unusual question that many might not feel qualified to answer but I would appreciate any educated guesses.
I am a beginner snowboarder who inherited a 134 Burton Nugget (correct size for me) with EST Stiletto bindings. I am also a left below the knee amputee with a valgus knee. In other words, my knee on that side falls inward (knock kneed).
I am boarding with my amputated side in the back (although feel comfortable both ways). What I am struggling with are the binding angles. I have asked multiple people with adaptive programs as well as my prosthetist and get different answers. 50% say go with a forward stance and the other half say go with a duck stance.
What angles do most people with knocked knees go with? Aside angles, is there any other set up considerations specific to the valgus knee? I am not looking to become a park rider. Mostly on piste.
in snowboarding that has been called the A-frame stance since forever, it's actually a really powerful, solid position. forward angles, back foot canted forward help bring the back knee forward locked in behind the front. sounds like you are most of the way there, though i have no idea what its comfortable for you or anything about prosthetics and riding.
I dont know much about prosthetics but the angle is determined by how joints work differently on different people. because a normal leg's ankle and knee can only rotate so little without loosing range or motion, that's why you find the best angles that work for you.
I am no doctor but from my point of view as an engineer since your knee is rotated inwards I would say a more forward stance. however it really depends on your stance and how your prosthetic is set up. the best way is to try stand on it and squat down see if you feeling any abnormal pressure or stress in the knee.
I'm a prosthetist and a snowboarder, so I should be able to answer your question. However, that's kind of a tough one to align without a visual. Intuitively I'd say:
-widen your stance to disperse force through the knees,
-use whichever stance (reg or goofy) that causes the least stress on your prosthetic side knee,
-use supportive inserts (ie Superfeet) to enhance medial support and promote varus alignment,
-Bring extra prosthetic socks so you don't go home with an angry residuall limb. Or use a thicker gel liner for more cushion when riding (if you wear one).
Ideally you would have a snowboarding prosthesis with an exaggerated inset of the foot to promote varus at your knee. But insurance rarely covers this sort of thing. Maybe next time you get a new prosthesis have your prosthetist turn your old one into a snowboard leg. Additionally you might be able to customize the cant on the footbed of your prosthetic side binding so that you have an angle that's high to the medial side to control some of that valgus.
It will be a give and take experiment. The body will only allow so much postural deviation off of how it has wound up to this point. Good luck and have fun.
Fergatron2000: please humor me just a bit more.... I went for a lesson at a fairly well established adaptive program and their strong recommendation was for the amputated leg to be in the back (this is their recommendation for all of their lower limb amputees) making me a goofy rider.
Why is this? I know I should have asked but I was more excited to get on the snow than worry about reasoning. I think if my leg was not amputated I would naturally be goofy however, when a position myself with my amputated leg (left) in the front (+28,+9) I feel the most solid and can lean on the front leg with much more force.
When I put my amp in the back in a duck stance (+15, -15) my knee doesn't fall inward as much but I do not feel as though I can apply as much force through the board on either foot.
With both feet forward riding goofy (+21, +9) I am comfortable but my amp knee falls forward (maybe this is a good thing????) and I cannot apply much force through the amp leg.
What is the downfall to having my amp in the front? Will I loose control? Do I need to be able to apply force through the back leg? Will riding goofy in a duck stance but additional pressure and force on that knee?
I have a ski specific leg with a rampro foot but it does not translate well. My prosthetist is great but not a snowboarder or skier.
My guess is they want you to put your sound side fwd to absorb impacts and protect your prosthetic side. Makes a lot of sense, especially if you plan on progressing into more advanced riding/terrain.
Some experts here could probably answer your questions better than I, but in general you should have even weight distribution through both legs. Turnin is not done by one leg or the other but by weight shifting with coordinated upper body movement as you transition from edge to edge. So yes, not so much appying firce through both legs, but letting your weight fall evenly through both. And keep your knees flexed.
Stance is a preference/comfort issue. What works for one rider will be totally opposite for another. One thing to keep in mind is that your foot (if it's this one: Rampro - Activankle) has an ankle that articulates in one plane vs. the triplanar motion of a normal ankle. So if you're stance is aligned with your prosthetic side at a enough +/- angulation it may want to pull your knee with it. This could result in pain and/or excess socket pressure. I'd be tempted to start you with a flat back prosthetic foot (i.e. zero angle) or maybe -5deg of duck. Too much either way I would think you risk injuring your knee ligaments which sucks.
Do they have a prosthetist that can adjust your stance on the hill while at your lesson? That would be ideal. Even simple things like toe out/in could make a huge difference.
If your snowboarding prosthesis is endoskeletal (has a pylon showing) I'd be tempted to add a rotation unit to reduce some torque on your limb. Rad to hear you like your prosthetist. Some good ones and bad ones out there.
if you go with a forward stance (+/+) it's 60/40 weight on the front foot, more if you are carving hard. less so if it's pow. in my mind, if i lost a leg i would def be wanting it to be my back one...
Wow. You are all amazing! I was expecting responses of "I have no idea" but you have all been great!
I have a feeling I over analyzing and I just need to get out on the hill with a phillips screwdriver (for the bindings) and an allen wrench (for the prosthetic leg... Fergatron2000 just had a heart attack), fall down the mountain, make adjustments, and try agian. Good thing this season does not seem to want to end!
I am up at WRNMMC, Bethesda, MD and we go to CO and the areas around DC all the time to board take a look at this guy and his leg. As far as boarding goes find like they said what works best for you everyone is different with BKA. You don’t want to stress that knee to much as the socket rub sucks enough on a good day.
Did some research and the back-leg theory is sound. It looks like it is due to protection from a fall. Try +15 front -3 back and see how that feels on your knee. If it feels good then go -6 and so on just do not exceed -15. If -3 brings you pain then go 0 in the back or +3.. you get the idea.
i really want to see video of you falling and popping your leg out of the prosthetic to make it look like your leg snapped in two and freaking out other people on the hill
Just won the Sochi paralympics.
She's been an amazing and inspirational rider and person, snowboards and wakeboards.
Her prosthetic leg is in the front, not sure about her angles.
As most have said, it's such a personal preference too. Bring a little pocket-tool and experiment to see what feels best. It may even vary by snow conditions.
The first time I went snowboarding (a couple weeks ago) I decided to start at the top of the mountain. Having never gotten off a chairlift on a board I promptly fell and tried to quickly get out of the way. All of the sudden the lift operator is telling me not to move and he is calling ski patrol. I look down and my pros leg (which is strapped to the board) is flipped 180 degrees. After I stopped laughing I explained it was fake. The poor kid was about three shades too white.
haHaaaa, that's priceless...you gave him a good tale to tell too!
saw a couple vids of amputee guys just Kiliin it on the groomers, like you would never know. too hard to tell their setups aside from raceboards with hardboots for some. impressive
on another level, i would think that being able to get out and ride would be a huge mental boost as well if walking or other things were [ insert most positive and pc way of saying, 'challenging'] i dunno, just seems pretty awesome, more power to ya essie
While carpet boarding I found the most comfortable stance at 18" (I'm 5'1") with angles at +21/+6 and my amp leg in front.
I tried, I mean REALLY TRIED to keep my amp leg in the back but no matter what I did the knee would either fall inward (severely), hurt, or I would feel horribly awkward.
I'll see how things change on the hill. Luckily, the board is a twin tip and the EST bindings are a breeze to change
Yep! Any DIY thoughts on how to keep my stump from twisting inside the socket (only happens when skiing or snowboarding)? I am in elevated vac at 20 mmHG with an external sleeve.
My stump and liner twists inside the socket (it's a good fit). The sleeve twists muck like wringing out a towel. Argh!
That's a hell of an idea. There are different grades of Velcro. It seems the potential weak interface is your skin to the liner, but the liner to the socket seems it would be good.
Just got back from fiveish hours of snowboarding (with lots of falling). Two things I discovered:
1. My livingroom carpet lies: I felt I was most comfortable at +21/+6 riding regular in my livingroom however, once on the mountain it felt all wrong. I am, without doubt, a goofy rider. Anglewise, I brought a screwdriver and changed the angles a few times. Suddenly, everything clicked and felt amazing (+15/-12).
I've followed your thread, but haven't chimed in as I have nothing to offer. I just want to say you're inspirational and I think your attitude is amazing!:thumbsup:
I have had two, two hour lessons (private) and have a little over 6ish hours on my own (although much of that was spent on the very slow "magic carpet"... I do NOT find it magical at all).
I am feeling frustrated. I am only able to link a couple of turns together before I fall, usually when on toe side, and if I pick up any real speed my body, against all mental fight, leans way back. Yesterday it took me a half hour to go down a green that on skis I could have done in less than five minutes.
How far behind the learning curve am I? I guess what I am fishing for are some words of encouragement and any suggestions or mantras you used when you were learning.
BTW, I still love it. Just feeling down that it is not coming as naturally as I hoped.
E
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