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What do you think?

  • I'd buy this

    Votes: 2 3.3%
  • I want to demo this before forming an opinion

    Votes: 25 41.7%
  • I'll stick with ratchets

    Votes: 22 36.7%
  • I'll stick with back entry

    Votes: 4 6.7%
  • Stay in school. This will never sell

    Votes: 7 11.7%
13K views 113 replies 22 participants last post by  quikboarder93 
#1 ·
For those of you who remember from earlier this season, I've been working on a lightweight quick entry snowboard binding system. It's a set it and forget it design that is super convenient.
I finally got some footage of the prototype in use and decided to make another tech talk video.
Always open for suggestions and comments, so check it out and let me know what you think!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppwQyCycFvk
 
#3 ·
Thank you! Good to hear that I made a big enough impression for you to remember my last post.
And thanks, couldn't get that to work. Haha
Yep, got a haircut and wore a hat this time! Also much more excited about this now that I got to ride the CNC machined prototype for a season. It's been sweet!
 
#4 ·
i give you props for:

1. sticking with it

2. admitting the downfalls you see (in the promo)

3. if this is useful for anyone

criticism:

bottle opener shit is stupid. who cares. lame.

saying "i've put 20 days on these so they're good to go" is just bullshit. if you think you've got something real then kick out 20 or so pairs to a bunch of riders better than you and wait and see what everyone else has to say about comfort and durability.

thats all i got
 
#8 ·
Yeah I agree also, you need to send some out for testing or get people to give to small fee (10 dollars shipped ) to help pay for the materials to make it. I know that it kind of sucks but without more people riding them and breaking them or not breaking them you won’t know what to do. R&D is always hard but I am sure if you ask people on here will help you out by paying for shipping and let you know what they are like.
 
#13 · (Edited)
That is a good point. Didn't realize the bottle opener part is also the closing mechanism (didn't look closely before as it's not an important feature to me, thought it sat benignly atop the closing mechanism).

Hitting tons of dead ends here though.
You're in MD. There's PA accessible to you, NY and VT too if you're willing to drive. Hell I'm on the east coast and rode twice this week. Going out a few times again next week. But as already mentioned, you have access to a world wide testing demographic if you were able to ship them out. No dead ends here.
 
#16 ·
20-30 days isn't much. I put 115 days on my flows between last jan and this December and had the aluminum highbacks break, granted I'm a bigger dude than you and most so the forces created on a hard turn are way higher than what you could possibly do.

They replaced both highbacks, can you afford to do that for 20% of your customers on warranty materials? Just food for thought.

There are people that ride way more than average out there and those that put way more stress on there equipment per use than you.
 
#19 ·
With my job, where I am located, and my resources, I am lucky to get 20 days on the hill in a season. The fact I got over 30 and a trip to Vermont was lucky for me. Full time students don't make money. Dropping out of college soon though, so that will change.
With mass production, definitely could afford to deal with warranties, if I had a company and not a part time job tutoring math.
 
#26 ·
OK confused here, these only work on Nitro bindings?
Bindings are not universal, so it is only transferable from Nitro to Nitro binding.
So up to now you already have limited your market. I understand you just trying to prove the concept of it working 1st. Now you may need a complete redesign to see if you can even get them to work on something else.

I like how you point out a downfall of powder. Honesty in your product shows you know your product and aren't marketing false info.

I also like the backyard park, this could be a large market for you.

The patent process, I'm not sure I believe you here. A simple patent search to start is $1500 ish and will grow to around $3K. Not including the 12-16 month process of getting the patent. So if you can barely afford a single prototype how did you get this upfront cash or is this where all you money went prior to making the prototype.

Place a gopro on your board to film you getting in/out and how they move while riding. It was nice that you added the park footage.
I also know this was a test video so-to-say but you must get a better backdrop.

Since your season is over, more for next year. Ask random riders if they would try this system out with you. You will get some yes and a lot of no's so get used to that and keep at it. Then film them if possible and ask them to fill out a questionnaire about the product.

I must say I think you gotten taken on your prototype cost. I can't see the detail of your product. I think if you shopped it around a simple part like that you could have CNC or Milled up for far less. I going off my own experience needing parts fabricated from scratch. If possible get a file of the part that a machinist can upload and whip one up. That would keep the parts consistent and reduce your costs, if you don't already have one.

Glad to see you stick with it, take the good/bad this is what an entrepreneur must endure. You've really come a long way with this idea and I hope it works for you. This is a great experience for you as well being so young and taking this on. It is how many great businesses start, hard work, no cash, sweat and tears !!!
 
#27 ·
OK confused here, these only work on Nitro bindings?

So up to now you already have limited your market. I understand you just trying to prove the concept of it working 1st. Now you may need a complete redesign to see if you can even get them to work on something else.

I like how you point out a downfall of powder. Honesty in your product shows you know your product and aren't marketing false info.

I also like the backyard park, this could be a large market for you.

The patent process, I'm not sure I believe you here. A simple patent search to start is $1500 ish and will grow to around $3K. Not including the 12-16 month process of getting the patent. So if you can barely afford a single prototype how did you get this upfront cash or is this where all you money went prior to making the prototype.

Place a gopro on your board to film you getting in/out and how they move while riding. It was nice that you added the park footage.
I also know this was a test video so-to-say but you must get a better backdrop.

Since your season is over, more for next year. Ask random riders if they would try this system out with you. You will get some yes and a lot of no's so get used to that and keep at it. Then film them if possible and ask them to fill out a questionnaire about the product.

I must say I think you gotten taken on your prototype cost. I can't see the detail of your product. I think if you shopped it around a simple part like that you could have CNC or Milled up for far less. I going off my own experience needing parts fabricated from scratch. If possible get a file of the part that a machinist can upload and whip one up. That would keep the parts consistent and reduce your costs, if you don't already have one.

Glad to see you stick with it, take the good/bad this is what an entrepreneur must endure. You've really come a long way with this idea and I hope it works for you. This is a great experience for you as well being so young and taking this on. It is how many great businesses start, hard work, no cash, sweat and tears !!!
1. This particular prototype is only compatible with Nitro bindings. With the right hardware, and possibly some dimension variations, it is compatible with any binding where the strap mounts outside the heelcup if the heelcup sits high enough that the lever will not drag on heelside turns. In other words, it would work with Ride, Union, and Rome as well to name a few.

2. Glad you appreciate my honesty! I don't like being bullshitted, so I don't see any point in bullshitting others either.

3. The patent process is expensive, but a patent application, which gives you a filing date instantly, is only $65 if you do it yourself. I easily spent over 20 hours putting that together, not counting all the research on how to do it prior to filling it out.
I did some research on other patents for a few hours, but official patent searches are a waste of money. There is no way to know for sure that nothing similar has ever been patented in the history of patents. It's a crap shoot/total shot in the dark. Read about it for a few hours and explore different sites. Total waste of money. Lawyers will tell you "it's absolutely necessary" though because that's how lawyers stay employed.

4. The garage was the only place in my house I could get rid of the annoying buzzing/humming sound that my refrigerator sends out and the camera picks up, as you can clearly hear in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BicF5PnUw3A
I tried 2 different cameras with their built in mics and 2 external mics (even bought the GoPro adapter cable, which I didn't use) all over the house and even my Rhode NT1-A picked it up everywhere. It was an annoying process.

5. You can get into them while riding, but you have to have really good balance. I can do it, but I figured there would be no point in filming it because 95% of riders probably could not, making it not a real selling point. Maybe I will at some point next season though. Who knows.

6. I got a lot of quotes online, and although the local shop was a little pricy (not by much though), it was worth it because they gave me 2 prototypes for the price of 1. There is a lot of detail that went into the pieces. I easily could have simplified the drawings more for a lower price looking back, but I needed it in time for the season.
I looked into CNC, steel prints, DMLS, and got quotes from various places. I do not regret my decision going with Tech Inc.
That price mentioned also includes hardware, printed plastic lock piece, and plastic straps. Lock piece needs to be made out of aluminum too (plastic just breaks), but I ran out of funds. 20 years old and still need money for living life of course.

7. Thanks! I hope it works out for me too. It's been one hell of a learning experience, that's for sure.
 
#29 ·
I have considered both. I've actually been trying to figure out what perks I could give away with kickstarter, and I'm not sure I really have anything. I guess could design some shirts. Kickstarter is the next step on my list though.

Haven't looked into Shark Tank, but now that you have reminded me, I shall do that!
 
#30 ·
I am fairly sure this concept will work OK, because i had this on my first set of bindings in 1997 (cheap, no brand bindings). Maybe a bit hard to see here:


I do remember the clips would *sometimes* let loose mid session, but usually the toestrap kept me fine until i realised i was getting a bit loose (and you can shut it while riding so it wasnt a big deal)
 
#39 ·
Not trying to make ratchets obsolete; just trying to offer a different option.

How big is the mountain you ride?
My local hill is tiny, so there is a lot of strapping in and getting out. I also hate ratchets in yard sessions, so that is where this idea sparked from.
To each their own though. All good!
 
#36 ·
I hate to hate, but....

I can strap in as quickly as the person in the video, and like flows I doubt once some snow is in there that these things will feel comfortable without adjustment.

Sorry, but even if it takes me .5 seconds less to strap in with your system, I still wont be paying extra to do that - the beauty of the ratchet system is that I get the same tension every time because i'm not a retard and I know what tight binding feel like when im ratcheting down.
 
#40 ·
Yes, they suck when snow is jammed in there. Ever tried to clear snow out of Flows though? The straps are fixed, so it's kind of hard to get in there and do that.
With my system, the strap can be pulled aside, so you can easily push the snow off when it builds up and it's no big deal.

Not sure about you, but to me, snow is uncomfortable in all bindings regardless. If I realize there's snow under my foot, I'm undoing my ratchets anyway to clear it out. With this system, it won't close if there's snow jammed in it, so that's an advantage to me. It lets you know.
 
#37 ·
Just want to give a shout out to the OP and say that this is a very cool idea! I don't know much about making bindings, but I agree with the previous posts. The more people who ride/test it, the better. The idea can spread by word-of-mouth and the testing will also help you make improvements. Think of Burton bindings for example, they have testers riding bindings every day who can suggest improvements. When they find something new that works, BAM! It shows up on next years Cartels or Malavitas.
 
#41 ·
Thanks man! And yes, I totally agree that I need to get people testing this out. One step at a time though. This season was dedicated to getting some footage proving it works and making a decent tech video (which I still might re-shoot outside one sunny day for better quality).

Still just trying to build some traction to get some funding. I'm at a slight (and by slight I mean significant) disadvantage not having an international team of pros/product testers and essentially infinite resources. Haha
 
#51 ·
I think that if you patent it as an ADD-ON item, i.e. something that works with existing bindings, you will be able to avoid patents from existing full bindings that employ a similar/same system.

I dont think that trying to make your own bindings is a good idea. There is so much tech that goes into them these days, and it seems that a milimeter of unwanted/extra movement in any direction is enough to get reviews like "worst binding ever".

But back on the first point, could these be made to be almost truly universal? i.e. that you could make this so that it replaces the ladder strap, but still provides the ladder to work with existing binding ratchets? That way you could provide them to suit all sorts of manufacturers, and it would be a quick and easy upgrade you can put on your favourite bindings

If you see this extremely lightened and contrast adjusted pic of my old bindings, you can see that the latch mechanism seems like it might work with a modern ratcheted binding too - just that you wouldnt need to use the ratchets more than a couple of times a day
 
#55 ·
True. People are so picky. Now is a pretty new company though. You just have to connect with and work with the right people and anything is possible.

I'm not sure if they could be made universal. Possibly with custom hardware, but I'm not sure. I don't think any shop would let me disassemble bindings to let me see if my prototype fits different brands either, so I'm not sure how I would go about that. All comes down to needing more funding again. Haha

It could easily be used with ratchets, but then it's just added weight and the dead spot is still right on top of your foot. I don't like the idea of that, and I'm sure other people wouldn't either.
I can actually see why they probably discontinued that model though. It appears that the strap is mounted pretty far away from the heelcup, which would result in a loss of response.
 
#56 ·
Well they werent the greatest bindings, they kinda sucked, but that latch mechanism was fast and easy - which is why i am all for your idea

That and the fact that I have all sorts of skipping issues with the ratchets on my current Burton Mission bindings (already warrantied once, i am just used to reaching down and tightening the bindings again halfway down the hill now). If you made it so i could keep the comfy Restricted ankle strap, with a quick entry/release system it would be awesome.
 
#65 ·
OK,.. It's obvious that you have done more research and in depth thinking on the subject and where your product idea would fit into the SB gear arena in general. (...I don't think that was quite so apparent to myself or others earlier in your posts, so,... no more trying to talk you into going in another direction.) :thumbsup: ;)

If you can stick with it and genuinely have something new, innovative and practical to offer the snowboarding community, then I'm sure you will do well! You have certainly showed an ability to weather criticism (...constructive and otherwise!) as well as an onslaught of sarcastic retorts! LOL! ;) :eusa_clap: So you have a good leg up on whenever you are ready to take this idea to the industry or public! :thumbsup:

I sincerely wish you every success in your endeavor!
 
#67 ·
Thanks man! Really appreciate it!
I've done a ton of research—so much I'm not even completely sure which direction to go anymore haha. In all honesty, my only plan right now is to keep moving forward. Keep learning, promoting, sharing, getting feedback, etc...
There are so many options, and the only thing that is certain is that I have to keep moving forward.

I voted for the "stick with ratchets" option. I had some Flows for a few years and I thought they were ok... until I switched back to regular bindings. I like being able to adjust the tightness on my bindings, and I do it all the time, even as I'm already going down a slope. and, like a lot of people here, I have ZERO problems with taking that 5 seconds to strap in. with my Flows I was stuck waiting for my buddies anyways so there was really no point. plus I like to double check my boots, helmet, etc.. kind of like a ritual, so I would take a few seconds anyways.

that being said, I do think there is a lot of demand for this. just think of all those those casual riders that go a few times a year and get bitched at by their skiing buddies at the top of every slope (happened to me all the time when I started and it took forever to strap in).

I really liked the idea of making it an 'add-on.' it would be kind of like a low-risk, high reward purchase. and you wouldn't have to deal with people saying stuff like "fucking Quick Flip sucks serious balls because their toe-caps are fucking garbage."
I do not like back entry bindings either, which is part of the reason I started this project. Not the whole reason, but part of it.
Honestly, I found that most of the time I readjust my ratchets because it wasn't in the sweet spot in the first place when I took off down the hill.

Do you have yard sessions, urban sessions, or snowboard at a hill with less than 600ft vertical a lot? That extra 5 seconds per binding adds up.
That being said, I also use this system as my primary set up everywhere, even when I travel to bigger mountains.

Casual riders would love this, and I think advanced riders would as well. I would consider myself an advanced rider, and I found no loss in response. I thought I would have to direct it towards jibsticks and soft flex bindings, but after switching it over to my Team Gullwing from my Swindle, I realized it provides enough response for all styles of riding.

An add-on would be cool, but again, the hardware on bindings is not necessarily universal and I'm not sure if that would make it in the market either.
With the right people on board, I could successfully run a binding company. Now is fairly new, and so is Switchback. Switchback also went from design concept to production in three months, so I'm thinking really anything is possible.
Rather go with licensing though. Much easier.
 
#66 ·
I voted for the "stick with ratchets" option. I had some Flows for a few years and I thought they were ok... until I switched back to regular bindings. I like being able to adjust the tightness on my bindings, and I do it all the time, even as I'm already going down a slope. and, like a lot of people here, I have ZERO problems with taking that 5 seconds to strap in. with my Flows I was stuck waiting for my buddies anyways so there was really no point. plus I like to double check my boots, helmet, etc.. kind of like a ritual, so I would take a few seconds anyways.

that being said, I do think there is a lot of demand for this. just think of all those those casual riders that go a few times a year and get bitched at by their skiing buddies at the top of every slope (happened to me all the time when I started and it took forever to strap in).

I really liked the idea of making it an 'add-on.' it would be kind of like a low-risk, high reward purchase. and you wouldn't have to deal with people saying stuff like "fucking Quick Flip sucks serious balls because their toe-caps are fucking garbage."
 
#70 ·
I would be running 30 or 40 pairs of this next season for development and then licensing this to different companies, or even selling it to a big company...!!!

Going to be very hard to get it sold to the public direct i think, but get a manufacturer on board and you could be successful...

It always depends on patents though, but it does interest me to see how you get on, as it is one of the better ideas to be brought through this forum...

Where you could be onto a winner though, is definitely on KIDS bindings, as some of them struggle with ratchets, so if this is easier, then it could be worth investigating there... ;)
 
#71 ·
1) you should not target experienced boarders. I can step in and clamp on my flows way faster than in that video. when using regular bindings, union factory, I can strap in while on the move straight off the lift.

2) target beginner and intermediate riders, there are way more of them out there and this is something that they all really like. A lot of city dwelling riders just like piling up gear to use on their 5-10 days on the mtn a year. That is part of the hobby for them.

3) make. This a universal product and save yourself some money and heartache with having multiple designs.

4) follow Kevin's advice, try to find interest from a binding company or 6 of them. License the use of the design to them. I would probably use them if they came on the binding, I hate addons.
 
#75 ·
Your reply to #1 is a moot point if people can already so it, why bother spending more money to do the same thing? That's why I say in point #2 to focus on beginners and intermediates(low intermediates).....

Get more bindings from different companies and fiddle with the design.

Either you posted this for advice or you didn't. If your gonna be snarky to 90% of the replies then what was the point? Don't resist the input, use it and learn from what you could possibly do to be successful.
 
#79 ·
heh, that came out wrong :laugh: I wasn't calling your thing junk, I just have no interest in shiny new phones and can't understand why people keep spending $700+ on them. *steps away from political/philosophical rant*

could be interesting if you were to propose this as a jib-session-only binding. there might be a few other things to do differently than just the ratchet system.

anyways keep up the good work!
 
#82 ·
Dibs on beta testing :yahoo:

So I have not seen anyone volunteer for testing so I will throw my hat in if you are looking for guys. I ride Flows, 3 yrs on them 5 pairs total. I can strap in standing up on conventional bindings nearly as fast. For me I like their product.

I ride small Midwest resorts that require a ton of strapping in/out. It's what we got so I ride it. I ride right around 30 days on a 90 ish day season.

So if you are looking for a beta tester when ever let me know.
 
#83 ·
Chomps- Thanks! Yeah, it's actually hard for me sometimes to tell when people are just projecting their own inner problems at me or actually trying to be helpful. Have to stay down to earth and weed through the discouragement/negativity though. There is valuable information somewhere behind every comment, including the negative ones.

Slyder- Sure thing if I can find the funds to produce a bunch of them and get some demos/samples going!

I also wanted to bring this up. For those of you who are skeptical about response and advanced riders using this system, Board Insiders just reminded me that it is very similar to GNU's system:



This design actually had quite a bit of influence on mine. The main differences, aside from it being a one-part/fixed lever system, are:

1. Quick Flip still uses front entry, which is better with hills. Feel free to have a dirty mind and laugh at this. Also better in powder.

2. Easy of use. With GNU's system, you have to take your foot out to adjust the straps. With Quick Flip, you have to flip up the lever, but you can keep your foot in place, which makes adjustments easier and faster.

3. With Quick Flip, no more messing up your adjustments to put your board in a board bag.

4. Less moving parts = less things that can break.

5. Flex of the binding. This could just be me and that's fine, but I personally don't like the rigid feel of the cable supported highbacks. I feel like at least some people would agree though, which is why I bring it up.
 
#84 ·
this is tagged as patent pending, so Im glad you have applied. You may have luck selling this technology to a company, otherwise youre going to have to generate a lot of interest and funds to get this going and make a profit. The reason I suggest selling this to a manufacturer is because I have no idea what kind of interest you will get for this. Admittedly its a better system if it lives up to your claims, although personally I cant imagine buying a set of bindings JUST for the quickflip strap. Now, if you had the durability of a Union, with canting, and great footbed(think a cross between a burton malavita and union factory) then id buy two pairs
 
#85 ·
i'd bet $1000 no binding company will pay you anything for this... because - as i stated in your original thread - this is ancient technology. most snowboard bindings used this type of hinge before ratcheting buckles...the only difference is that you made it releasable.

there is nothing new about this idea and no one will pay you for it.
 
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