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union bindings screws loose all the time

55K views 108 replies 52 participants last post by  zimnyx 
#1 · (Edited)
is it just me?
my sons contact pros. lost screws 3 times on ankle strap. seems i have to check the screws each time he goes out. this doesnt not happen on my flows. or any other binding he has used in the last 4 years. is it just him. or does every one else have this problem with union bindings



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#2 ·
I haven't had a problem losing any screws, but on my back foot's toe strap, the tool less screw has popped up around 3-4 times. I'm just thinking that my boot somehow hit it open, so I just keep an eye out for it every time I strap in. Maybe put a little loctite on all the screws.
 
#5 ·
I think I saw you talking about Nitro bindings on a thread some where but could not find them. What is your feelings on them. I was thinking about grabbing some for my kid but he is a big strong rider at 200 lbs/6' and the mini disks have always scared me. Think large jump lines and 20-40' drops while free riding.

I was scoping out the Team and the phantoms.....

Our gold standard has been union but figured we would try something else out....
 
#7 ·
Just got done snowboarding at Keystone for a week. I had the exact same issue with my forces - the ankle strap Phillips head screw kept coming loose. I had to tighten it twice at the top of the lift.

Many people are calling this a design flaw. I'm not so sure about that. Don't they have blue loctite preapplied? Threads are pretty standard, I'm not sure how much more they can do to prevent a screw from coming loose besides torquing it down tighter.
 
#8 ·
I was stomping the board to shake some snow off before strapping the back foot in. While I was doing this the back binding's ankle strap bolt came undone and flew off into the snow. All my friends had set off already so I had to dig around looking for the screw for half an hour.

The screws on my Unions engage abruptly, not gradually. Gradual engagement allows more feel for how tight a screw is but if it bites abruptly, it's either on or off. Not sure why this is but its an issue, and a silly one at that because it seems it can be addressed relatively easily.
 
#9 ·
The reason it's a problem is that it isn't a problem for pretty much every other brand. And there are a bunch of different things you can do to prevent this. Take Ride. They use a square head bolt that seats into the strap. The only way to tighten or loosen is the rotate the whole strap. Which means while mounted you pretty much have zero chance of it ever coming loose enough to fall off since the whole thing has to rotate past your board. Or Flux. They're bolts are all tool-less and have little flaps you fold down with catches to keep them from spinning. Then Flow, if you look at the underside of the bolt heads the surface is waved and the washer is waved so you have "notches".

There are many solutions to this problem. And when you consider how brands like Flux and Ride do it, you also get the benefit of the system being tool-less. For a brand that touts "we only make bindings", they sure dont seem to innovate all that much and have had a history of less than stellar part designs.
 
#10 ·
Always bagging on Union. You should start a new binding brand Kevin. It's super easy!


We always encourage people to tighten their hardware every day before riding. Loctite is the answer, but please let it dry before putting the screws back in.

Consider how many bindings we have on snow. 13 years on the market. We are bound to have handfuls of customers who need to loctite their hardware. Apologies to anybody who's had any "out of the ordinary" issues with this stuff.
 
#12 ·
Some people take criticism as constructive criticism and try to improve thier product while others just take it as just criticism.

It's not what went wrong but how you react as the face of Union.

That little dig at Nivek might seem fun but isn't very productive. From his experience it seems like this is a common thing. I myself witness a few failures from the toe screws coming completely off or the ankle ones coming off. It's strange but mostly friends with unions have this issue but no one out of my circle had these issues with other bindings.

Sure, everyone should check the screws before they go out but only for union owners?

This sounds like what Apple did when they said 'You are holding the phone the wrong way'. Look what happened? They took the constructive criticism and gave free bumpers for everyone who had a problem and then improved on their design of the antenna.

Don't get me wrong, I love my union bindings as I have multiple pairs and multiple years of the same binding but your little dig back at Nivek is not doing you any favors with your image. It makes me, as a customer, feel that Union doesn't care or listen to their customers.

If that's the case I am more than happy to take my business and money to other companies.

Just my $.02
 
#14 ·
First of all, thank you for the support. I guess I was only trying to solve the OP's current problem, instead of "yeah we are working on it".

But yes, we are working on it! I can give you reasons and excuses, but I don't think that's super productive either.

One thing I'd like to say though, is everybody should check their hardware before they go shred - regardless of the brand.

Lastly, I've always thought the good thing forums like SBF, is people can communicate directly with designers & company people making the products they use. It's a casual setting. I've never been that good at political correctness. My "dig" at Kevin, wasn't meant to start anything. I was only joking.
 
#20 ·
I figured out why the ankle strap screw keeps coming loose all the time. To clarify, by ankle strap, I mean the strap with the padding and ratchet attached to it.

After tightening this down, I realized that by rotating it counter clockwise (the same direction that loosens a screw), the screw moves - and therefore loosens - with it!

These are brand new 2017 Force bindings. I can upload a video if anyone needs clarification.

I'd like other members to try this if they have time - after making sure your ankle strap is tight, go ahead and spin it counterclockwise (with the screw head facing you). You will find that the bolt loosens with it as the ankle strap spins.

This is an issue because as we all know, we are constantly rotating ankle straps while unstrapping or strapping in. It may not be as big of an issue with the front foot since that foot usually stays strapped in, but each time I get to the bottom of the run, I unstrap - thereby rotating the ankle strap. Same goes for when I strap in at the top of a run.

I really love these bindings but I don't know if this is an issue I can live with :/ I'm legitimately afraid this strap is going to come loose mid-run and I'm going to really mess myself up.
 
#21 ·
this is exactly what caused me to start this thread. the issue is that the 2 washers that are meant to allow the strap to rotate are dragging on the screw head, since the female side is locked in and keyed with the square side the screw moves and un does itself, even with the loctite applied to the bolts. this is something any decent mechanical engineer should be able to solve. my son could have been injured badly as he was riding rails at the time it came undone
 
#25 ·
Union claims it's a better plastic specifically designed for cold weather. But until I see some independent testing I have no reason to think their nylon/fiber composite is really any measurably different than anyone elses. And the heelcups basically have to be made that way. Cast is too heavy and brittle for the application and milled is too expensive. Mag ratchets is mostly for marketing. Grade 8.8 hardware is great, but I don't have people snapping hardware like ever, so... necessary? Or marketing?

Now don't take this as a cinistic view, they market their product extremely well, and what they use is certainly not any worse than industry standard.
 
#26 ·
Sadly I have decided to return. The employee I spoke with reported that he has also seen this issue, and that if I want to use these bindings I simply have to make sure I tighten them frequently while snowboarding.

Can anyone recommend some good replacement bindings? I have had Cartels before, which were nice, but what happens if I need to adjust the binding for toe/heel overhang? With the Force I can adjust the heel cup, but with any other bindings I don't see a way to do it, specifically with the Cartels. Thanks.
 
#27 ·
Burtons have the unibody design so you cannot adjust like that.

Other bindings to try if you like the force / cartel feel and want to stay away from Union, would be the Rome Katana. If you need to adjust toe to heel you can always call burton's rider service to get the discs that were made specific for toe and heel adjustments.
 
#28 · (Edited)
When I got my 2014 Force they had nylon washers between the screw and the strap and when you rotate the strap, it would loosen the screws.
What I did was I took the nylon washers out. It a looser fit but they are not loosening anymore.
The nylon washer is keeping the screws from bottoming out on the heel cup is whats causing the problem. I think what they are trying to do is to give a more premium feel so the ladders and straps kind of stay in place when not fastened.
Take the washers out, it's been tight for 3 years. I just recently replaced the ratchets on the back foot. The little springs broke so the ratchets would flop around but its normal wear and tear.
 
#30 ·
Take the washers out, it's been tight for 3 years. I just recently replaced the ratchets on the back foot. The little springs broke so the ratchets would flop around but its normal wear and tear.

Out of curiosity, how many days a year are you getting? I ask because under the average snowboarder a ratchet spring should last way longer than 3 years.
 
#34 ·
Well we stuck with our gold standard and got the new force bindings. I will report if any issues.

We have hundreds of days on multiple unions and just have not had the issue. I asked my son about the blue loctite and he said he has not used it on the last 2 or 3 pairs. We didnt put any on these either. I would guess he rides more and tougher terrain than 99.9% of riders.

Any issues we have had with bindings were resolved within a couple of days for shipping time. The contact pro gave us issues with broken disc then broken base place 2 years ago and thats it....
 
#38 ·
I think I found a fix for this instead of loctite. I just tried adding a couple nylon washers between the washers so they're not pinching the strap as much and used some graphite lube on it. There's enough tension that the straps still hold themselves up but they move around the washers without spinning them. I just have to wait for snow to actually test it now
 
#39 ·
I picked up a pair of Flights in 2016 and loved them. Ended up buying a new pair on sale at the end of last season and after 3 days of riding (beginning of May at A. Basin on a Smokin' Awesymmetrcical), I put them on a different board and noticed my back ankle strap was loose. Didn't think much of it until now. I noticed before I made it to the lift, so I was able to tighten it without a problem. I usually don't check everything every time I go out, but I think I'm going to start.

I have had strap issues before with one falling off and another snapping, but that was the mid-late 90s and Morrows.
 
#40 ·
I had the same issue with my union factory last time it happened I was out with a guide for a day just got to the top of a glacier about to strap in and my toe strap fell off, needless to say I was less than impressed after having it happen previously. By pure luck I found the screw lying in the snow, just incase it ever happens to anyone and you can't find the screw but happen to have a gopro the gropro mounting screw is the same size thread (had to use one previously). Changed to Rome bindings after that season and have never had an issue.
 
#41 ·
On my side I had screws stuck in the inserts. It was the Union Factory on my Jones Aviator. So I think the board with the stuck screw into the insert to the shop and they had to cut the head of the screw to the it off. The original Union screw rusted into the insert and I had signs of early rust into the other screws too. So I replaced the hardware with Burton's and the problem was solved.

But now I have a screw that's stuck into my Aviator without a head. So try to figured to get it off...
 
#49 ·
We had several days of production of the 16/17 bindings where some of the hardware had faulty thread locker. Unfortunately, this wasn't realized until we started having a spike of calls similar to the OP on the thread. Anyone having issues please go to our site, and call the warranty number listed in your country. https://www.unionbindingcompany.com/warranty

In regards to the current lineup, I can confirm that the issue is resolved. We have also reworked the bolt/washer relationship to keep things tight, even after the thread locker has worn off.

Thanks, and here's to an awesome season!
 
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