K2 cinch v. Gnu v. Flow - sorry to beat a dead horse but.. - Page 2 - Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums
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Old 10-19-2010, 08:53 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Fastec Brotherhoods and Troopas are totally tool-less adjustment, I can't comment on the other moels. Forward lean is a twist of a knurled roller with fingers, no need to even remove boot from binding to adjust, just lower the high back and adjust then raise it up.

The toe strap is adjusted at set up and thats it. If you adjust it afterwards there is a good chance you will force the boot too far rearwards in the binding and not be able to lower the high back properly. Been there myself.

The toe strap/cap in reality is irrelevant. Heel side turns involve the heel pushing, not the toe lifting. Toe side is the same. The toe cap does not have to exert lots of tension to work. In the Fastec set up the toe cap is pushed firmly onto the boot and locked. The highback is lowered and the boot removed, the toe strap is then taken in one notch each side. It is then deemed to be correct tension for when you put the boot back in. The ankle strap can be tightened and the high back can be adjusted as much as you like, just don't go messing with the toe cap, it doesn't need it.

As for snow/ice getting in the binding and stopping you getting your foot in, that applies to any binding. I can't see the difference between a traditional two strap binding and the Fastec, they both have the same straps but the Fastec also lowers the highback.

For me the step ins are for convenience, I am 6ft 5in and 45yrs my feet are a long way down there, the less time I spend bent down or sitting on the snow the better for me.
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Old 10-20-2010, 09:46 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavman View Post
Fastec Brotherhoods and Troopas are totally tool-less adjustment, I can't comment on the other moels. Forward lean is a twist of a knurled roller with fingers, no need to even remove boot from binding to adjust, just lower the high back and adjust then raise it up.

The toe strap is adjusted at set up and thats it. If you adjust it afterwards there is a good chance you will force the boot too far rearwards in the binding and not be able to lower the high back properly. Been there myself.

The toe strap/cap in reality is irrelevant. Heel side turns involve the heel pushing, not the toe lifting. Toe side is the same. The toe cap does not have to exert lots of tension to work. In the Fastec set up the toe cap is pushed firmly onto the boot and locked. The highback is lowered and the boot removed, the toe strap is then taken in one notch each side. It is then deemed to be correct tension for when you put the boot back in. The ankle strap can be tightened and the high back can be adjusted as much as you like, just don't go messing with the toe cap, it doesn't need it.

As for snow/ice getting in the binding and stopping you getting your foot in, that applies to any binding. I can't see the difference between a traditional two strap binding and the Fastec, they both have the same straps but the Fastec also lowers the highback.

For me the step ins are for convenience, I am 6ft 5in and 45yrs my feet are a long way down there, the less time I spend bent down or sitting on the snow the better for me.
So Cavman, you ride both CTX and Fastecs - which do you like better? I am an all mountain kinda rider and mostly stay out of the parks. I am leaning towards the CTXs mostly because they have been around longer and a lot more info about them. I would think that the mechanism would ultimately create problems and loosen up or have other malfunctions as opposed to the Fastecs but I haven't heard much of any on the user forums - and since they are way more available at local stores, probably easier to get parts. They also look a little easier to get into if the snow is deeper and not groomed.
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:11 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowbrdr View Post
So Cavman, you ride both CTX and Fastecs - which do you like better? I am an all mountain kinda rider and mostly stay out of the parks. I am leaning towards the CTXs mostly because they have been around longer and a lot more info about them. I would think that the mechanism would ultimately create problems and loosen up or have other malfunctions as opposed to the Fastecs but I haven't heard much of any on the user forums - and since they are way more available at local stores, probably easier to get parts. They also look a little easier to get into if the snow is deeper and not groomed.
Flow has been around the longest

And if you get 2009 model or higher, powder won't be a problem. You can just undo the outer straps and strap in like normal. The SE versions make that even easier.
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Old 10-20-2010, 12:01 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Flow has been around the longest

And if you get 2009 model or higher, powder won't be a problem. You can just undo the outer straps and strap in like normal. The SE versions make that even easier.
agreed
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Old 10-20-2010, 12:12 PM   #15 (permalink)
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agreed
...and the 2011 ratchets have been upgraded and upsized all the way down the line. Full dual entry and micro tuning performance has seen a huge upgrade in 2011.
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Old 10-20-2010, 12:15 PM   #16 (permalink)
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With the advice of some of the guys on here, like Leo, I went with the Flow NXT-AT and I'm pretty excited about them. I like the way they look and I feel the larger surface area will allow me to tighten the binding without having pressure points on my feet. I was curious and I found a great deal at my local sports chalet (50% of on 2010 models), so my risk is minimal. Plus, I just felt the length of time that Flow has been in the rear entry binding market should give them an advantage in making a better product.

here's my binding n board I just got.....

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Old 10-20-2010, 12:23 PM   #17 (permalink)
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All I have to say about the Cinch's is that K2 also makes the Auto line which outsells the Cinch significantly... The weight issue has probably been somewhat reconciled over the last couple of years but the design is still the same and at least to me has never really been that good. I like their concept and the same goes with Fastec's which I was also looking into but at the end of the day if I'm going to go step-in it's going to be Flow. I had a pair of Amp's a few years back and I couldn't stand them because they were so bulky and unresponsive. They also had cable issues and were completely unreliable. That said they were also really comfortable and easy to get in/out of in average conditions. I have stayed away because of the durability and weight issues with them but the last 2-3 seasons they have really improved. I'm either going K2 Auto or NXT for this season.
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Old 10-20-2010, 03:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowbrdr View Post
So Cavman, you ride both CTX and Fastecs - which do you like better? I am an all mountain kinda rider and mostly stay out of the parks. I am leaning towards the CTXs mostly because they have been around longer and a lot more info about them. I would think that the mechanism would ultimately create problems and loosen up or have other malfunctions as opposed to the Fastecs but I haven't heard much of any on the user forums - and since they are way more available at local stores, probably easier to get parts. They also look a little easier to get into if the snow is deeper and not groomed.
K2 high back folds down to about 45 degrees and feel like you are sliding your foot into a shoe, in and down. The Fastecs fold all the way flat like the Flows, so more like sliding your foot into a slipper.

The advantage of the K2/Fastec over the Flows is two fold. The Flow has the big one piece strap, yes it does provide full boot pressure I agree, the downside is that snow and ice can build up in there if you are not careful.

Secondly Flows do not exstend or release the ankle strap when the highback goes back, so you have to force your foot firmly in and the strap is already gripping your foot bridge even before you raise the highback. This is where I had my issues with Flow and snow/ice build up.

When I saw the K2 canterlever system that raised the ankle strap at the same time as you lowered the highback it simply meant putting you foot in, there was no grip or resistance against your boot on the straps. Once the highback was raised then the ankle strap bit down and secured me in. Big difference for me.

Fastec offered the same comcept, that being no pressure/resistance to putting the boot in at all. The fastec also has the small buckle to make adjustments on the ankle strap as required.

To get out of the Fastecs in deep snow simple undo the ankle strap and then the buckle. The K2s you can undo both straps as they are exactly the same as a normal two strap binding.

As for the mechinism wearing out? I have not heard of anyone saying they used one and it "wore out" or "its all loosens up"

For all mountain riding I prefer the K2 CTX, but having said that, my Fastect models I have are for my other boards which are smaller and more for small kickers and butters etc. I was thinking of putting my Troopas on my Ride Highlife 168cm Wide after I get back from Japan and see how it goes on my local mountain.

At the end of the day, these bindings suit me and my riding style. It is all about preference.
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Old 10-20-2010, 04:11 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavman View Post
K2 high back folds down to about 45 degrees and feel like you are sliding your foot into a shoe, in and down. The Fastecs fold all the way flat like the Flows, so more like sliding your foot into a slipper.

The advantage of the K2/Fastec over the Flows is two fold. The Flow has the big one piece strap, yes it does provide full boot pressure I agree, the downside is that snow and ice can build up in there if you are not careful.

Secondly Flows do not exstend or release the ankle strap when the highback goes back, so you have to force your foot firmly in and the strap is already gripping your foot bridge even before you raise the highback. This is where I had my issues with Flow and snow/ice build up.

When I saw the K2 canterlever system that raised the ankle strap at the same time as you lowered the highback it simply meant putting you foot in, there was no grip or resistance against your boot on the straps. Once the highback was raised then the ankle strap bit down and secured me in. Big difference for me.

Fastec offered the same comcept, that being no pressure/resistance to putting the boot in at all. The fastec also has the small buckle to make adjustments on the ankle strap as required.

To get out of the Fastecs in deep snow simple undo the ankle strap and then the buckle. The K2s you can undo both straps as they are exactly the same as a normal two strap binding.

As for the mechinism wearing out? I have not heard of anyone saying they used one and it "wore out" or "its all loosens up"

For all mountain riding I prefer the K2 CTX, but having said that, my Fastect models I have are for my other boards which are smaller and more for small kickers and butters etc. I was thinking of putting my Troopas on my Ride Highlife 168cm Wide after I get back from Japan and see how it goes on my local mountain.

At the end of the day, these bindings suit me and my riding style. It is all about preference.
Hi Cavman,

A few things. It is hard to compare "Flow bindings" as a group to any other make or model because there are 18 very different model in the current line. Unlike the companies that are very new to producing rear entry bindings, Flow has been at it for a decade and a half.

The "big one piece strap" you mentioned seems as though you are comparing to older models. Many of the current Flow models have less strap surface area than similar conventional bindings.



The extending ankle strap that you are considering a positive on the extendable models from the non-Flow manufacturers is actually a negative that had to be worked with to avoid Flow's existing technology. One of the strongest features of the Flow system is the incredibly snug fit that is achieved when the highback is raised against the static strap system. This is lost when the straps must extend.

Getting this set up takes some understanding of the system and as riders above have attested, it becomes so easy that no stops are needed. If you are applying force to enter a current Flow model, there is either a usage issue or a sizing issue.

We can troubleshoot either.

Last edited by Wiredsport; 10-20-2010 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 10-21-2010, 06:13 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Wiredsport

I will agree that the model I used was the older one. I was not saying that Flow was not good. I was simply stating that with a flow your foot is pressed against the strap as you go in, It has to. You can say that it is all loose and free when you slide you boot in, but when you raise the highback suddenly the pressure across the top of the boot is totally firm and secure.

I found that there were times I had to stab my foot into the binding and other times I had to wriggle it to get it out.

I like my bindings firm on my boots and that is why I liked the other models over the flow, the fact that I could put my boot in similar to how a person boots their boot into a standard two strap binding. No pressure, no friction. Then raise the higback, fold the strap and click it is super tight across the ankle.

I don't see how having an ankle strap that loosens or widens to put your boot in and then locks down to secure your boot is a negative.

I know Flow have been around a long time and their models have changed. Lots of people like Flows, lots don't. If there were no Fastecs or K2 CTXs for me to use I would be using a Flow binding, have no doubt.
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Last edited by Cavman; 10-21-2010 at 06:16 AM.
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