K2 cinch v. Gnu v. Flow - sorry to beat a dead horse but.. - Page 3 - Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums
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Old 10-21-2010, 06:57 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Wiredsport View Post
Hi Cavman,

A few things. It is hard to compare "Flow bindings" as a group to any other make or model because there are 18 very different model in the current line. Unlike the companies that are very new to producing rear entry bindings, Flow has been at it for a decade and a half.

The "big one piece strap" you mentioned seems as though you are comparing to older models. Many of the current Flow models have less strap surface area than similar conventional bindings.



The extending ankle strap that you are considering a positive on the extendable models from the non-Flow manufacturers is actually a negative that had to be worked with to avoid Flow's existing technology. One of the strongest features of the Flow system is the incredibly snug fit that is achieved when the highback is raised against the static strap system. This is lost when the straps must extend.

Getting this set up takes some understanding of the system and as riders above have attested, it becomes so easy that no stops are needed. If you are applying force to enter a current Flow model, there is either a usage issue or a sizing issue.

We can troubleshoot either.
Thanks again for the great input and feedback! It seems there are strong points for both Flows NXTs and the K2s. I am guessing that I might be happy in either. I am not sure I understand Wiredsport's point about losing snug fit as a result of having a system that tightens down the ankle when the back is raised - I am assuming that raising the highback of the Flow pushes the foot slightly forward and snugs the boot up against the ankle strap. This requires the boot to move forward. Cavman's point was that the boot does not have to move - the strap tightens down against the boot without the boot moving. These maybe somewhat subtle points when you're sliding off the lift, balancing, sliding your boot in, raising the highback, keeping some semblance of a board edge on your way to dropping off the mountain. I think I'm going to try a pair of Flows first in a local shop and see what they feel like. After all, if the ride, control and responsiveness are not there, then the easy entry is a moot point for me. Since I have never strapped into some Flows i guess I owe it to myself to give them a shot. The one positive I have heard about them is that those that like them, really love them and I hear a lot about them being more comfortable in general. If they are not quite as easy to get in and out of, it would be worth the trade-off for me for improved control and comfort.
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Old 10-21-2010, 08:44 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Thanks again for the great input and feedback! It seems there are strong points for both Flows NXTs and the K2s. I am guessing that I might be happy in either. I am not sure I understand Wiredsport's point about losing snug fit as a result of having a system that tightens down the ankle when the back is raised - I am assuming that raising the highback of the Flow pushes the foot slightly forward and snugs the boot up against the ankle strap. This requires the boot to move forward. Cavman's point was that the boot does not have to move - the strap tightens down against the boot without the boot moving. These maybe somewhat subtle points when you're sliding off the lift, balancing, sliding your boot in, raising the highback, keeping some semblance of a board edge on your way to dropping off the mountain. I think I'm going to try a pair of Flows first in a local shop and see what they feel like. After all, if the ride, control and responsiveness are not there, then the easy entry is a moot point for me. Since I have never strapped into some Flows i guess I owe it to myself to give them a shot. The one positive I have heard about them is that those that like them, really love them and I hear a lot about them being more comfortable in general. If they are not quite as easy to get in and out of, it would be worth the trade-off for me for improved control and comfort.
The beauty of Flow rear entry is that your foot ends up snugged correctly into the right place every time. The entry is a bit different than some users intially might think. These are the steps for first setup at home:

Set each of the 4 adjustment points to the very last tooth on the adjustment straps (largest position). Insert your foot (must be tightly laced in the boot-do not set up with a loosely laced boot). Position your foot so that the highback can clear the heel (but just clear it-as far back as possible). Use the ratchets, tightening the strap down to your boot. The binding is now ready to ride. When you go to kick in again, your boot will not get all the way in. It will be resting on the highback. That is correct. From this position, pull up on the high back, and stand down on your heel. The boot will "shoehorn" into place. As your boot will always be moist from snow when riding, this is very easy when riding, a bit harder when dry.

Last edited by Wiredsport; 10-21-2010 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 10-21-2010, 04:42 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Wiredsport,

That was my problem, shoe horning in. Not all snow is moist. Japanese Snow is very dry and I had times where my boot would NOT slide forward that extra bit to get the highback up. I rode 8 hours a day with those Flows in Japan for two weeks. It was those bindings that convinced me to look at Rear entry bindings.

For me I like that fact that there is no shoe horning with the Fastecs or the K2's.

At the end of the day, we all can't ride with K2s or with Flows or Fastec. Everyone's likes are different and I am glad there is a selection out there amongst the different providers.
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:06 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cavman View Post
Wiredsport,

That was my problem, shoe horning in. Not all snow is moist. Japanese Snow is very dry and I had times where my boot would NOT slide forward that extra bit to get the highback up. I rode 8 hours a day with those Flows in Japan for two weeks. It was those bindings that convinced me to look at Rear entry bindings.

For me I like that fact that there is no shoe horning with the Fastecs or the K2's.

At the end of the day, we all can't ride with K2s or with Flows or Fastec. Everyone's likes are different and I am glad there is a selection out there amongst the different providers.
Agreed on the benefits of selection. That said, with correct sizing and setup, you will be able to enter the current breed of Flow bindings easier and more consistantly than K2, Fastec or straps.

Happy riding.
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:12 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Hahaha Lets agree to disagree
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:29 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Good discussion. Helped me think through some of the things I'm looking for in a binding.

And the winner is... ME!
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Old 10-23-2010, 08:46 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Hahaha Lets agree to disagree
Ok, here's the tie-breaker on this discussion for me.. I had ordered a pair of NXT ATs from a local shop and went there yesterday to put them on my board and demo in the store.. The Flow baseplate would NOT bolt to my Gnu Carbon Credit! We tried it rotated each direction and on top of all the board holes. The guy in the store was really puzzled and brought up someone else that runs the department... we were all amazed that the holes in the plate were just slightly off.. they called Flow and Flow had never heard of this problem. My Ride SPIs use a slotted baseplate so the slight offset doesn't matter with Rides or K2s. I love my Carbon Credit (2010 model) and would not give up that board for any bindings so it's a deal breaker with the Flows.. the question for me right now is whether this was some defect in my board I never noticed because of the binding plates that I chose or that there is more of an issue with the new Flow base plates mating with newer model Gnu boards. This should all be standard stuff so I am puzzled and for my own curiosity, I am contacting Mervin.. I was a bit bugged because the NXT ATs did look nice and I was interested in seeing how they felt on. So... I ordered some CTXs.. I am not a Pro and I am pretty convinced after all the discussion that I probably would be happy with either... maybe this is just a sign for me..
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Old 10-23-2010, 09:00 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Ok, here's the tie-breaker on this discussion for me.. I had ordered a pair of NXT ATs from a local shop and went there yesterday to put them on my board and demo in the store.. The Flow baseplate would NOT bolt to my Gnu Carbon Credit! We tried it rotated each direction and on top of all the board holes. The guy in the store was really puzzled and brought up someone else that runs the department... we were all amazed that the holes in the plate were just slightly off.. they called Flow and Flow had never heard of this problem. My Ride SPIs use a slotted baseplate so the slight offset doesn't matter with Rides or K2s. I love my Carbon Credit (2010 model) and would not give up that board for any bindings so it's a deal breaker with the Flows.. the question for me right now is whether this was some defect in my board I never noticed because of the binding plates that I chose or that there is more of an issue with the new Flow base plates mating with newer model Gnu boards. This should all be standard stuff so I am puzzled and for my own curiosity, I am contacting Mervin.. I was a bit bugged because the NXT ATs did look nice and I was interested in seeing how they felt on. So... I ordered some CTXs.. I am not a Pro and I am pretty convinced after all the discussion that I probably would be happy with either... maybe this is just a sign for me..
Please post some photos. The Flow disks are made to VERY tight tolerances so that they will not move slip rotate once mounted. The downside of this is that the board's inserts need to be in perfect square.
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Old 10-23-2010, 09:30 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Please post some photos. The Flow disks are made to VERY tight tolerances so that they will not move slip rotate once mounted. The downside of this is that the board's inserts need to be in perfect square.
I ordered CTXs from the same dealer as they give 10% all their bindings so when I go in, I will take my board and get some pics. This was not a matter of tolerance, one or the other flat did not line up and we could have easily stripped the holes if trying to force the screws in. You could get two to line up and bolt in but the the other two would simply not go, except at an angle and would cross thread. I emailed Mervin's warranty department as well to see what they say. It will be interesting if both manufacturers plead denial. Cavman, curious what kind of base plates come with the Gnu bindings - holes or slots? The guy at the board shop was measuring the holes in the board and stated that they were slightly further apart than standard.
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Old 10-23-2010, 10:51 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I only use flow bindings with different boards that I have.... never had the issue. I have smokin boards, never summer, LTD, Burton, Rosignol to name a few. They even work on the new burton triangle design...... I have 3 different pairs of flows.....
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