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I own Union Force.. Should I go for Contact Pro, or SL next?

15K views 46 replies 10 participants last post by  P-Ride 
#1 ·
Hey

I got an Endeavor Color board a little while back (with Ltd. Edition Addict camo, not that silly cartoon graphic!) which is 159cm reverse camber, which I paired with Union Force 2011/12 bindings.

I've been hitting our local indoor snow park in preparation for the coming season (first trip of three booked already!), with an emphasis on jumps, 180s etc.

My conclusion so far, is that this setup is a fun ride, but struggles to 'bite' on ice (probably due to the RC) and it's a little on the large side for quick 180s. I think due to the size and shape it should ride real nice in powder though.

Hence, I'm now buying a regular camber board (found a great deal on an Endeavor Live 153 camber) for jumps, spins and general on-piste use. I've also been advised to go smaller (I am 5'9" and weigh 200lb/84kg) for maneuverability.

So I need to buy a second set of bindings. Do I get a softer pair for powder (the Contact Pro) or a stiffer, more responsive pair for on-pister (the SL)?

Option One:
159cm RC Endeavor Color with Union Force bindings for powder
153cm Reg Camber Endeavor Live with Union SL bindings for on-piste, jumps and spins

Option Two:
159cm RC Endeavor Color with Union Contact Pro bindings for powder
153cm Reg Camber Endeavor Live with Union Force bindings for on-piste, jumps and spins

Thanks
 
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#2 ·
Hey man.

i'm with 220-230 lbs and 6"5 able to do 360 on my 174 (!!!) rockered board. (i fail 3 out of 5 jumps, but anyways)
I can easily do 180, and i do not catching edge anywhere.

"struggles to 'bite' on ice (probably due to the RC)"
Detune your board, if you think so. But i think it is all about the skills.

Usually people buy softer binders for park, and stiffer for freeride (powder goes this category).
My opinion: Force for powder, contact pro for park.
 
#4 ·
"struggles to 'bite' on ice (probably due to the RC)"
Detune your board, if you think so. But i think it is all about the skills.
detuning the board would give it even less of a "bite" so don't do that. it might partially be due to the RC but different RC boards will have good grip. A lot of it depends on the side cut. Magnetraction on lib tech and gnu boards for example grip very well on ice and so do a bunch of other boards I know. Camber may help a bit but that's not the main thing that's wrong
 
#3 ·
You really don't need a different pair than the union force. they're nearly perfect for anything. If I were you I would put the forces on the new shorter board to use for jumps. Then for the bigger board you have now, you could either get another pair of forces or change it to the contact pro or SL depending on how stiff/soft you want the bindings to be. That's pretty much up to personal preference
 
#5 ·
Thanks guys. Actually my intuitive response would be to put the Force bindings on the 153 regular camber.. Perhaps I over-thought this initially. So we're agreed that would be a neat setup for piste/park/jumps?

Then the question remains, an SL or a Contact Pro for my 159cm RC board with the general intention of powder use? I'd have softer would be best, but actually you recommend stiffer (the SL) for powder/off-piste?

I'm buying a second set mainly because I don't want to change bindings regularly on my trips; and two pairs is good in case something happens to a pair whilst I'm away.. I considered a second pair of Forces, but seems a good opportunity to try something new!

Regarding technique, I'm a fairly short, powerful rider. I think my technique on stopping is pretty solid; and the principle of RC cambered boards having less grip on ice is fairly well established, no?

Ollieing isn't my strongest point currently (I'm more strength/power than agility), hence the shorter board and 'pop' of camber is appealing!
 
#10 ·
softer binders for park, rest is for powder.
contact pro is softer then force, i suppose.

then tune your "powder" board, for 88 degree (sharper then 90) and get fun.

ps: do you really need second board?
You can do whatver you want on your 159 board. tune it and you'll get extra grip. this will save you lots of money.
 
#12 ·
In answer to both your queries, it's probably good to emphasise that I really like my current setup. I really enjoy riding it and approaching my next purchase from wanting to build on this; rather than thinking anything is 'wrong'.

Hence I'm looking at more Union bindings and another Endeavor board!

I just want more manoeuvrability and a little more 'bite', which more experienced friends assure me I'll find in a shorter, cambered board.

I'd like two to take away with me and am definitely ordering this 153cm.. Just need to decide which bindings for powder!
 
#13 ·
Hmm.. This brief piece advocates super-light, stiff, high-back bindings for powder..

Powder Snowboard Bindings | Powder Snowboard

The Union SL would fit the bill perfectly here.. And I've got a dude trying to sell me a pair from last season, used once, right now..

So 159cm RC board with Union SL.. Looking like it makes sense on paper?
 
#15 ·
Out-bend? You're saying I'm too heavy for a 153?

Hmm.. My assumption until a couple of months ago was that I was too big for sub-159, but quite a few guys - some of whom weigh similar - are assuring me I can do it; and that it's a good move..

What do you think?

And I already have RC; and a massive (161cm) stiff cambered board..

Something small and cambered really is appealing.
 
#16 ·
I'll say it again. I think the lengths of the boards are good for what you want. a shorter camber board for quicker spins of jumps and better grip through ice. a longer reverse camber (rocker) board for float and stability in powder. As for the bindings, either use your forces on the 159 and get contact pro for the 153 or put the forces on the 153 and get the SLs on the 159. Or just getting another pair of forces wouldn't be a bad option either as they are great all around bindings and you can do anything on them unless you're really technical or something and are going to be pushing the limits. I've owned a couple pairs of unions and they're excellent bindings. The only downfalls to them are as of now they don't have canting options for the footbeds and the toe strap doesn't fit well with all kinds of boots. If you don't mind the regular footbeds and if the toe strap fits your boots, I say stick with Union. If you can't make up your mind, you could also try demoing a pair early in the season to see which ones you like better.
 
#24 ·
a shorter camber board for quicker spins of jumps and better grip through ice. a longer reverse camber (rocker) board for float and stability in powder.
Not true =)
Shorter board - less grip.
Longer board for powder AND stability AND ice.
Shorter board for fun. (I got no short board, so i'm fking serious guy :cool:)

Hmm.. Someone'e just pointed out board width..

I wear a UK size 12 (US 13) boot. That works fine with my 159cm (I have a fairly standard 15 degree tilt and set my heels back)..

Do you guys think a 153cm would be doable?
It must be me.

Check out your board width.
With US13 ( i got that too) you better keey board's waist close to 27cm.
Also: check out your stance, you'll notice that with 15 angle you have more overhang, then with 6. So you either go 0-3-6 angle or 21+, because th e diagonal is always longer then side.

This can actualy be as isuue, and if you getting low on stopping or carves this can be your problem. I've solved it in a way, i wouldn't advise to you guys =)

Noone has said that? It's the regular camber that provides more grip and stability, because it 'bites' into the snow better than RC.
It gives you extra grip - not true.
It gives your more energy - yes.
You bend out the board with your 200 lbs to pretty the same arch, no matter rc or camber. And you grip with the edge on the snow in either rc or camber.
 
#17 ·
Thanks for your reply Rookie. It's good to hear someone else click with my rationale! I feel like a 153cm camber really will complete my collection and be a great contrast.

As I mentioned, board no.3 is a 161cm stiff camber I managed to find on eBay in mint cond. for £50! I haven't had the chance to use it much yet, but anticipate it being good for piste-charging..

I love the Force, so keeping it on my new smaller camber board which will see a lot of use at park night makes sense..

And reading around, stiff, light and responsive bindings seem to be favoured for powder.. Well that would be the SL to a 'T', I think!

Plus, if anything moving to stiffer, more responsive equipment would favour both me starting to progress more; and being a heavy, powerful rider.

That makes enough sense to me to pick both those items up next week anyway - and I'll have two bindings/three boards to rotate and learn from in the Alps in December!
 
#20 ·
I have small feet so I don't have experience about when to get a wide board but from what I've heard a lot of people say, if you wear US 11.5 or bigger you should at least check it out. If your boot has a low profile or your board is naturally wider you might be ok, but i know normally you'd probably want a wide board with US 13 boots. Also consider your style, if you're going to be going fast and carving hard or are going to be in deeper snow, you're going to want the board a little wider to keep the boots from digging into the snow. 153 might work regular since it's not your charging board but it might still be cutting it close. the 15 degree angles help too. just some stuff to think about.
 
#21 ·
Thanks for your thoughts. As I mentioned, I seem to be ok with the Color so far - which is under a cm shorter.

I used the mounting option with the Forces that allows horizontal (travel across the board width) movement; and pushed them back so the heel is at the rear edge; and turned them at 15 degrees, which feels good anyway.

Basically the boots take the whole width and really dominate the board, but don't seem to dig in.

The difference in width between the top and bottom boards is less than a cm anyway.. The only way to add more would be a with a wide board; and the smallest one is 157.. Which kinda defeats the point in going small; and only adds 1.5cm.

So, for £200, I think I'll chance it!
 
#22 ·
Who the hell is telling you a smaller shorter board is going to have more grip? That's positively ridiculous and utterly wrong.

I ride a 153 and weigh 150lbs. How does it make sense that you are going to get similar edge performance as me when your pushing 50 more pounds into the board?

You don't need to go shorter and get camber, stay the same and get something stiffer with better edge hold. The Endeavor Live Reverse is a solid all mountain freestyle board that will be super fun to jump too. The YES Greats like I said is also a great option.

If you really just have to have camber and smaller, Get a Ride DH 155, Nitro Factory Rook 156, Burton Aftermath 155, Flow Quantum 155, Arbor Relapse 155, or a Salomon Sabotage 156.
 
#23 ·
Noone has said that? It's the regular camber that provides more grip and stability, because it 'bites' into the snow better than RC.

Wanting to go smaller is entirely different. I would like some more manoeuvrability; and friends of mine on small boards say I'll have a lot of fun being able to whip it round more easily.

I've got a stiff 161cm cambered as well and combining my experience so far; the things I enjoy doing and talking to a number of different people, I think there's a nice space in my quiver for a small cambered board.

I've got two Endeavors already and like them; I've had my eye on a Live for some time; it gets great reviews; and I've found one at a great price.
 
#25 ·
Noone has said that? It's the regular camber that provides more grip and stability, because it 'bites' into the snow better than RC.
If you take two boards that are exactly the same but one has rocker and one has camber, then yes. The cambered one, even in a single size down, will have more edge hold. When you go from a 159 to a 153, even with camber you will get LESS edge hold. The board is not designed to manage your weight. You WILL out torsion the tips and you WILL wash out.

Wanting to go smaller is entirely different. I would like some more manoeuvrability; and friends of mine on small boards say I'll have a lot of fun being able to whip it round more easily.
If you want more maneuverability than your soft, appropriately sized, center rocker park board, ride better. At the very most drop down one size and get something stiffer. Center rocker is already the most maneuverable camber style out there. If you take my advice and only drop down to that 155-156 size range and get camber, it will still be a little slower to move around compared to your Color.

I've got a stiff 161cm cambered as well and combining my experience so far; the things I enjoy doing and talking to a number of different people, I think there's a nice space in my quiver for a small cambered board.
That's fine. I really think you would have a lot more fun on a Live Reverse 156 or a 2013 YES Greats 156, but if you just have your head decided on the Live Camber, just don't get the 153. Even as stiffer board it will not ride as designed under your weight.
 
#26 ·
I'm 5'9 155 lbs and ride a 152 and feel like i could even go shorter and be fine if i wanted to. a 153 isn't going to be unrideable.

And I wasn't saying that shorter boards have more grip, I know they have less. I was saying camber boards have more grip than RC boards and therefore if he's going to go shorter he should get a camber. Either that or invest in a specialized board for going through ice like the magnetraction on lib tech and gnu boards.
 
#27 ·
Im not gonna say its an awful idea. Anyone can ride whatever the hell size of board they like, but its just a bit of a risk in truth. Effective edge is likely going to be too short for your weight (im around the same weight), so you will likely end up stuck in the park or washing. Performance wise youre also going to "bend the fuck out of it". This will mean LIKELY (since i have no idea about the flex of the board - but assuming youre going for a softer or medium soft set up), youre going to have little snap out of it and youre going to find it a touch squirly on landings. Hell, youll probably snap it though before you get sick of it so why the hell not?

But when you do snap it on a shit landing, just remember youre too heavy for it before you start screaming about poor manufacturing :p

The other problem, which might not be a problem at all, is that youre likely going to find yourself pretty much only pulling it out on park days. I dont know how close you live to the resort, but if you tend to day trip from a 100-200kms away, chances are youre bringing one board based on conditions that you arent ever entirely sure about until you get there. And having a quiver, nothing sucks more than guessing wrong and being stuck on your niche ride instaed of your kill it all ride. If you live even further away and do week trips, you will simply HAVE to bring another ride because it is going to be such a niche board for you. Nothing wrong in that, i stress this, ride what you want, but accept that this board is not going to be your go-to ride and it will be the supplement to your main ride because if theres any powder and you want to play in the powder, that day is going to fucking suck for you on that deck :)

What i would advise though is that you maybe demo a shorter board early season (or borrow one of your mates rides - if theyll let you, theyll probably think youre gonna snap it :)), and see how it feels. We all like different things so maybe you find its the solution to improving in the area you wanna go so why the hell not... but honestly at 170lbs, i cant go lower than a 155 without feeling like i have a kids board strapped to my feet, and even then id rather have a longer ride. Then again, i cant go higher than a 160 without feeling like its a canoe, so plenty of mind games at work.
 
#28 ·
Ok, some strong opinions! Thanks though.

Do you guys think the 156cm (they have one) is going to be a better choice and more versatile then? That's only an inch shorter than the 159 that seems standard for my height.. Likewise it's only an inch longer than the 153 that you say is going to struggle with me!

It's a medium flex (6/10) for the record. The Live has a great reputation; it IS an all-rounder board; and I'm talking about dropping two (with the 156, one) inches off the standard for my size. Surely at least the 156cm should be a versatile ride?

Regarding my riding, I drive 40 minutes to the indoor snowpark once a week. I have booked my first week in the Alps of the season (December) and plan a total of three.
 
#30 ·
Cheers. Unfortunately most of my board-riding friends are scattered over the world (doing guess what!). We have different board sizes to rent at the park.. But they're proper Rossignal rentals.. You know, half an inch of lino! Not sure how much they'd reflect what I'm buying!

I'd love to be able to try these boards, but I don't live in Canada - yet!
 
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