Rome Targa vs Burton Cartel? - Page 3 - Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:17 AM   #21 (permalink)
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umm, how can you guarantee me anything when you are basing your reply on assumptions? What specifics do you have other than what I have told you. That's not very much is it? Again, I ask, is it the number 3 that bothers you? Should I have said 10%? Would that have been more believable?

3% is not something from the marketing department - have a look around, you won't find it anywhere. I have it from a guy who works in the bindings design dept at B. I'm no engineer and do not know what machines they used to get that number, but when that guy tells me it's 3%, I know its legit.

oh, and what do you think about the 2014 Cartels? Didn't think Burton could release 2014's in 2012!
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:06 AM   #22 (permalink)
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This.

You probably won't be able to tell the difference, but it's there. You guys may not work in science, but they do take time to measure stuff like this.

It may sound unbelievable, but companies often compare/contrast the current design with its predecessor.

Stoked on those regional love cartels....I wish they'd have a NikeID type of situation for 2014 where you can make your own.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:31 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supra View Post
umm, how can you guarantee me anything when you are basing your reply on assumptions? What specifics do you have other than what I have told you. That's not very much is it? Again, I ask, is it the number 3 that bothers you? Should I have said 10%? Would that have been more believable?

3% is not something from the marketing department - have a look around, you won't find it anywhere. I have it from a guy who works in the bindings design dept at B. I'm no engineer and do not know what machines they used to get that number, but when that guy tells me it's 3%, I know its legit.

oh, and what do you think about the 2014 Cartels? Didn't think Burton could release 2014's in 2012!
What bothers me is the claim that the flex/stiffness of the binding or highback can be accurately measured or expressed in one number.
Is there one aspect in which the new Cartel highback is 3% stiffer than last year's one?
Are there others where it is more or less flexing than 3% the difference? Almost certainly...

Do you really believe that the highback is 3% stiffer torsionally as well as laterally...as well as in shock loading vs. gradual loading...as well as in breaking strength...etc.?
It just makes no sense.

And we have had the discussion on model year numbers before.

Last edited by hktrdr; 01-05-2013 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:40 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by phony_stark View Post
This.

You probably won't be able to tell the difference, but it's there. You guys may not work in science, but they do take time to measure stuff like this.
So again, what did they measure?

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Originally Posted by phony_stark View Post
It may sound unbelievable, but companies often compare/contrast the current design with its predecessor.
Not unbelievable at all. Most companies obviously do that. But they generally do not make claims like the one that "the newer model is 3 percent stiffer" - for good reason, because it makes no sense.
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:05 PM   #25 (permalink)
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reading this discussion is making me 3% dumber - which i don't need to tell you: is a pretty scary premise.
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:09 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Burton probably has machines that test things down to those measurements. That's how engineers roll. They are stat monkeys. So I don't doubt in a lab someone may have measured a 3% difference in one measurement.

However as any factory worker will tell you, a lot of times those measurements don't mean much in real world applications. That's why a perfectly engineered product may fail in the field. Nothing replicates thousands of people using your product in the field.

So don't focus on the 3%. The message is, the flex according to the engineer SHOULD be similar.

Someone who has both in their hands can tell us.

Last edited by jdang307; 11-10-2012 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:15 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I would assume measuring torsional flex is pretty standard when stress-testing new binding designs. Hence, no reason not to believe that this year's model has 3% more flex in the high back than last year's. Better riders will no doubt pick up on that immediately.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:23 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
So don't focus on the 3%. The message is, the flex according to the engineer SHOULD be similar.

Someone who has both in their hands can tell us.
My $.02... The torsional (twisting) flex feels similar between 2012 and 2014 despite the highback design difference. They both are hella stiff perpendicular to the board centerline - as in supporting a hard heel-side carve.



Disclaimer: my twisting and bending was not performed under rigorous scientifically controlled repeatable conditions, nor was my analysis peer-reviewed. My estimated margin of error is.... wait for it... 3%

Last edited by qwezxc12; 11-12-2012 at 11:05 PM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:32 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Well played, qwez...well played.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:38 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qwezxc12 View Post
My $.02... The torsional (twisting) flex feels similar between 2012 and 2014 despite the highback design difference. They both are hella stiff perpendicular to the board centerline - as in supporting a hard heel-side carve.



Disclaimer: my twisting and bending was not performed under rigorous scientifically controlled repeatable conditions, nor was my analysis peer-reviewed. My estimated margin or error is.... wait for it... 3%
any other differences? Is it lighter? the highback is noticeably shorter
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