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2013 union binding >HELP<

19K views 120 replies 29 participants last post by  Mfoehrkolb 
#1 ·
So I've watched those union binding clinic videos on youtube and my toe straps still get stuck (or take a huge effort to remove). I've adjusted them to the point where only about 4 teeth are showing, any suggestions would be appreciated.
:dunno:
thanks.


oh yeah forgot to mention they're contacts
 
#13 ·
Yeah, I have a pair and they are a bitch to release. Extremo's right about pressing on the back of the ratchet with your thumb while pulling of on the front- that's what's been working for me. I use the DLX/Flite ratchets- they're much easier to release than the others, as I have a pair of the Force ratchets and they can be difficult to work with.

All Union needs to do is put a friggin release lever on the toe ratchets like they have on the ankle ratchets. That would reduce their #1 complaint by a lot.
It's not complicated, if Union's reading this.
 
#14 ·
Unions toe ratchet being difficult to release does not translate into holding better. The locking teeth are on an independent pin within the ratchet housing. Their ability to hold the ladder has nothing to do with the way the rest of the mechanism pressures it to release. Their is NO benefit to its design and to be completely honest it's a dated racthet mechanism. Do it the way Burton/Flux do it, or use the industry standard, a 3 pin with a release lever. No reason not to.
 
#15 ·
That's not the problem. The problem is that there's no release lever on the toe ratchets. So because of a lack of leverage that would be provided by one, more force needs to be applied to release the toe ratchet.

I guess that's why they called it the "Force" binding.

Yes I know, that was a shit joke. :)
 
#20 ·
I have a pair of union flite bindings. I love them, have never had a problem with the release. Guess I am lucky. I am however completely pissed that the pretty pink paint is chipping off in one or two spots already. I have only spent time on the bunny hill. Not like I am tearing down the mountain or anything.
 
#21 ·
I have a pair of union flite bindings. I love them, have never had a problem with the release. Guess I am lucky.
I agree, but it's not because of luck.
I have the DLX and Force bindings. My bro has the Flites. The DLX and Flite both have the same toe ratchet, which is a lot easier to release than that of the other Union bindings.

Also, the lock on The DLX/Flite ratchets opens up wider which makes them easier to slide on the ladders. I have a DLX toe ratchet on my back binding and a Force ratchet on my front binding, since I get out of the back binding after every run. Both sets of my straps are from the Force bindings, and I use the DLX ankle ratchets too.

I am however completely pissed that the pretty pink paint is chipping off in one or two spots already. I have only spent time on the bunny hill. Not like I am tearing down the mountain or anything.

Annoyingly, the paint on my heel loop and toe ratchets has also started to chip off. :angry: That happens with everyone's though.
You could return them if possible and go with another brand if it bothers you.
The biggest parts- the base and highback- are not painted, so you don't have to worry about those.

I do think they could have made the paint more durable though. I wonder how much more they'd cost if the parts were powder-coated instead of painted? That would last a long time.
 
#22 ·
I was not commenting on why the ratchet was hard to open. You made that assumption based on nothing. I was purely commenting on the ratchets ability to stay put on the ladders while riding.

When properly adjusted and used correctly you don't strip ladders with Burton or Flux ratchets. If you're maxing out the ladder and trying to choke your ankle then yes, you will strip ladders. But if you're doing that, you didn't set up your bindings right or you're in the wrong size.

Oh and good job pointing out 2 brands that you "claim" have inferior ratchets. And can you really say that they perfected their toe ratchet in year one? Cause I'm pretty sure the mechanism is the same.

You failed to explain why they aren't using a release like on the ankle either. That one seems to stay put just fine and not strip. While I've never had an issue with Burton/Flux ratchets I still prefer a 3 pin (there's isn't) like K2, Ride, and Salomon now use. It has as much power and accuracy as your beloved Unions and then also releases 10 times eaiser.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Union isn't using the release lever on the toe ratchet as they do on the ankle because it would look retarded and it isn't necessary. Again, you just need to pull and press...no need for a lever.

Ride uses the same mechanism. They've also perfected this ratchet design. They just use a lever, which I think looks ridiculous and, again, is completely unnecessary.

10 times easier? Seriously, pull and press simultaneously. For some it may take some practice. But if you work really really hard, you will get it some day.
 
#30 ·
Proving once again you're a dumbass.

in all honesty i think that idea is for someone that doesnt own a pair of unions and is thinking of buying them can get an idea of how they will perform...

you can argue about the toe cap(fits my ambush boots so no problem there) but to bitch about the buckle come on..great bindings...everyone def helped me way back when i was contemplating what to buy

and that what its all about helping others that didnt have a chance to own them,or else we can go on and on like should a get a burton or some other board stuff...personal preferences but the buckle is just fine
Don't fret, these two have been hardcore Union haters for years now. I always find it's funny they go ape shit over product that uses the same exact designs, yet takes any chance they get to shit on Union. You know what they say about turds of a feather...

BA use to shit all over brands back in his elsnowboardo days...he use to get flamed to shit back then, it was pretty f'n hilarious do watch him get douched on a daily basis. Which is why you shouldn't listen to gear whores when it comes to product. Listen to people who actually buy their shit. When you've got skin in the game you take the time to pay attention do good product, which is why I'm still riding Union. Some of the garbage these guys orgasm over is embarrassing to snowboarding.
 
#28 ·
in all honesty i think that idea is for someone that doesnt own a pair of unions and is thinking of buying them can get an idea of how they will perform...

you can argue about the toe cap(fits my ambush boots so no problem there) but to bitch about the buckle come on..great bindings...everyone def helped me way back when i was contemplating what to buy

and that what its all about helping others that didnt have a chance to own them,or else we can go on and on like should a get a burton or some other board stuff...personal preferences but the buckle is just fine
 
#31 ·
Bought the new Force this year on a recommendation. Absolutely hated them for the first couple weeks.

Instead of pissing and moaning though I researched threads. Search function over and over again on several different sites.

Took me another couple weeks to finally dial them in. Little by little through trial and error. I'm not gonna lie, it was a bitch. Pretty damn happy now and the more I beat the shit out of them the better they seem to fit.

Would I recommend them to someone else? Not unless they wore the exact same boot I wore and in the exact same size. I probably wouldn't even buy another pair in the future unless I started seeing a lot less threads like this.

That being said, people need to realize that shit don't often fit perfect right out of the box.

As far as paint chipping, ffs it's snowboarding, not ballet. If you are more worried about how you look then how you ride then you likely buy your shit from Zumiez.
 
#32 ·
As far as paint chipping, ffs it's snowboarding, not ballet. If you are more worried about how you look then how you ride then you likely buy your shit from Zumiez.
Not saying I am more worried about how I look than how I ride. What I am saying is that I spent a lot of money on my bindings, I have used them 3 times...on a bunny hill. NO reason for them to be chipping already. I think for what we spend on gear we should be able to expect it to ride well AND look good for more than 5 minutes. I don't think that is too much to ask.

Also...I did ballet for 10 years, and no serious ballerina cares more about looks than function. In ballet you buy a pair of expensive new toe shoes...and then you proceed to beat the hell out of them, burn them, rip them just to make them more functional on your feet. So you should not compare things you know nothing about.
 
#35 ·
After reading this thread I emailed C3 yesterday about not having a release lever on the Union toe ratchets, which would solve the problem of them being difficult to release. I expect they already knew, but I also mentioned it was their most common complaint in most of the reviews I've seen.

They came back today with this:

"This is handled for next season. Thanks for the feedback."

:yahoo:

Problem solved. ...Hopefully.
 
#40 ·
That's true, but adding a release lever would only mean a new mold of the same release part but with a perpendicular extension piece (lever).

You could still release it the same way they do now if they did add the lever, if you preferred.
The actual release piece would be exactly the same but with more material so it could be pulled directly form outside the ratchet housing. It wouldn't change the performance of the ratchet one bit. It would just give it an easier way to open.
There already is an easy way to open it. Pressing and lifting simultaneously. It's just as easy without the lever as it is with it. Just some people for whatever reason can't seem to figure it out. Low IQ? Who knows.
 
#41 ·
There already is an easy way to open it. Pressing and lifting simultaneously. It's just as easy without the lever as it is with it. Just some people for whatever reason can't seem to figure it out. Low IQ? Who knows.
Yes you're right. I know it's easy when done correctly.

What I'm saying is that there are people out there who can't seem to figure out how do release it correctly/easily, which it appears you've also observed. I see them almost every time I'm in the lift line.
The very first time I did it I didn't realize I had to pull up on the front with my index finger while pushing down on the back end with my thumb at the same time. That was with the easier DLX ratchets. Now I have the Force ratchets, although I'm doing it the right way they still need a good amount of effort to release when fully cranked down. It's an issue. No matter how good they hold, they simply shouldn't be a pain in the ass the release.

Think of it like this: With a release lever you get the same performance but with 2 ways to release it- the same traditional way and an obvious way, for those guys that moan about it.

I imagine that Union will be adding this next season for financial reasons, too. Most of the time the toe ratchets are their only complaint, and if they crack down on it and fix the issue there will be much less complaints, resulting in more sales.
More sales = more money
More money = good brand lasting longer

I don't want to see Union bindings lose popularity and fall because of something as stupid as a missing extension of plastic. I'm pretty sure that you don't neither, so you should be happy that they're pushing hard to stay competitive by their fixing their only real problem.

It might not be a problem for you and me because we're aware of the easy way to release the ratchets; but it is a problem for anyone else who buys the bindings and doesn't read this forum or doesn't realize how to do it the easy way.
It's not like the ratchets are going to lose anything they already have, so I don't see what's wrong with it. It's all beneficial.

Now, who wants bacon? :tongue4:
http://www.snowboardingforum.com/off-topic-general-discussion/54137-bacon.html
 
#47 ·
Yep, some people just can't accept change. Even if it's a good thing. :dunno:

Extremo, I honestly would have expected you to support Union's decision to do something about their toe strap ratchets if you like the brand so much.

Or maybe they should paint "PUSH HERE" on the back of the ratchets and "PULL HERE" ON THE FRONT... but then paint chips off. :giggle: So, that wouldn't be a solution.

Adding a release lever will make EVERYONE IN THE SNOWBOARDING WORLD happy, or at least ok, with Union bindings. That will also help people like us because we wouldn't have to waste our time on the forums explaining to everyone who complains the easiest way to release them.

Besides, it's Union- whatever they do is still going to be the same good indestructible shit, so there's nothing to worry about! :thumbsup:
Except the paint.
 
#49 ·
Besides, it's Union- whatever they do is still going to be the same good indestructible shit, so there's nothing to worry about! :thumbsup:
Except the paint.
I already know I am going to get a bunch of crap for this question...but I dont care. You think if I sent mine out to be powder coated it would void my union warranty? Think that would solve my issue with the paint chipping?
 
#56 ·
Some of y'all are funny... I totally agree.. I payed 250+ for these Union SL's and after one day of riding the paint was already starting to chip off pretty bad .. That didn't happen on any of my others... (Burton or Ride) so it's not normal or acceptable.. Some of us like for our ish to look good ! Especially after paying all of that money for it !
 
#58 ·
dude, you totally got him! zing!

I'm kinda new around these parts, but dayam, get over yourselves people. Ride what you want to ride, like what you want to like, like more than one brand. Your experience is different from everyone else. So you having a bad experience doesn't mean everyone is going to have a bad experience.

I have a set of Contact Pro bindings that I love. I got them for almost half off recently. I almost didn't get them because I felt like the ratchet was sticking a bit in the store (and I had also read about this one lots of sites). I gambled anyway. now that they're on the board, I don't really notice the sticking much. they certainly don't release like my Burton bindings (Custom/Triad/P1) or my Rome Targas did. However, I also don't think they are so difficult to release that I gotta go piss in someone's cornflakes.

Jennifer - Have you tried making a warranty claim? If they're chipping so bad trying going that route. Wouldn't hurt anything. Hopefully, you won't have to go without bindings. Maybe try the shop you bought them from and see if they will do something about it. I think you're right, if you spent the money on them, you should expect them to look good. Bindings aren't exactly wear parts like tires or something. Sure they take a beating, but they're not supposed to just crumble to nothing.

I like bindings from Burton, Union, Rome, K2, Ride and anyone else that is going to offer some features that I like. No reason to go brand bashing.

-joel
 
#60 ·
Hey, i just borrowed a pair of these off a friend, took me a few goes to figure out how to use them but theyre not that hard at all and are made pretty well ergonomically for your hand to release them.

They feel sturdy like theyre not gonna just come off by accident too which i like.

Admittedly at the first attempt i thought 'woah its stuck, have i broken it?' once you learn how to operate it as it was intended its really a very nice and SECURE system.
 
#63 ·
Wow! Like holy shit wow!

Just read through that whole thing and this is the kind of shit that makes me glad summer is coming so I can go rafting the rivers instead of dealing with snowboarders......:D

just ride people!
I tend to agree. And while I'm quite often a focus in these threads especially regarding Union I try not to and very rarely resort to personal attacks.

And I can't count the times I've tried to get across that I do not hate Union. Some of their practises bother me as well as what I and many others believe to be blatant oversights in construction. But I like the brand. They have a very rider driven and fun image. And when they first got going they we're really holding to the creed that Drake set down with a binding that was comfortable, responsive, and would never brake. Its been 8 years though and coming from someone that rode them for 3 years exclusively they, up until this year at least, have felt stagnant. A couple new models and a few other small changes but nothing huge. Their flagship binding, the Force, has only had minor tweaks here and there in the history of the brand. Some good, some not. They started with a rubbery material as the heel bushings that I felt rode much better. The EVA in them just doesnt take up vibration as well. The heel straps are better. And the gen 2 toe strap was better than year one. One thing I like Union for over most I've worked with is the adjustments. You have a much easier time getting someone boots centered on the board and getting an exact width they like with the way the heelcup and toe ramp adjust.

To hate a brand as a whole is to say I dislike everything they do and everyone there. I don't. I don't even hate all their product. I will hapilly sell Contact Pro's after I make sure the toe strap fits well and clear the customer on the toe ratchet and other than my issues with the toe strap I see no reason why the Flite shouldn't be one of the best budget bindings on the market, I just haven't ridden them yet.

As far as my gripes with the toe ratchet, again, I owned 3 pairs over 3 years. It took me 15 seconds to figure it out. But I also had all six ratchet's retention springs fail around the 20 day mark and the levers would flop about. It never effected the functionality but to call that the best ratchet on the market is silly. And there is only one reason for them not to change to a levered release, cost. From the sounds of the email someone posted they are either adding a lever to it for 2014 or moving towards something similar to Burton/Flux. So as far as the ratchet debate is concerned, I think it's done.

The new Union representative on here has been civil to me and even concerned as to how my attitude towards the product developed. I won't alter my opinions, but in return I'm trying my best to be as objective with the product as I can. Blatant fanboyism isn't helping though.
 
#69 ·
If bindings are painted how do you not expect them to chip? I would expect it and not care? If you buy a binding that is painted, and you care when it chips, imo, you are a retard. Consider the stress and flex happening. If its not a solid colored plastic or some kind of anodized aluminum, paint is gonna chip off at some point. :dunno:

I'm not an engineer or anything just a simpleton observing the bleeding obvious.
 
#70 ·
The paint issue is not unique to Union either. My Rome Targa`s and 390`s have paint issues too where I have banged them up as do every binding own. My board gets plenty of battle scars as well. Think of these dings, dents, scratches and gouges as battle damage; the give your equipment character and make you look more badass.....:D

Funny thing is, I picked up the Contact Pro`s last year for my Cobra and until reading this thread, I had not even noticed the toe strap release issue; it was just intuitive to me.
Had an angry parent come in the shop the other day complaining that his son's brand new Forces' toe ratchet had paint chipping after one day. All I could tell him was that my Rome's were 50x worse with paint chipping off the base, highback, and ratchets. Then I said "But they still do their intended job." Also told him if it bothers him that much that Union would take care of him.

Honestly, what do people expect? Do you go back to your car dealership and complain because a piece of road gravel chipped your paint? This is snowboarding and just like with your car, things are going to hit your gear. If you want it to look pristine, then don't ride. If it bothers you that much, stick to matte colors. Anything with any amount of gloss is going chip.
 
#71 ·
Honestly, what do people expect? Do you go back to your car dealership and complain because a piece of road gravel chipped your paint? This is snowboarding and just like with your car, things are going to hit your gear. If you want it to look pristine, then don't ride. If it bothers you that much, stick to matte colors. Anything with any amount of gloss is going chip.
I think the issue people are having is that rocks aren't hitting the car so to speak. The paint is falling off in the driveway, and if that is the case you are bloody right I am going to talk to the dealer about it.
 
#72 ·
Again...for those who are having a hard time reading or understanding the paint problem. I have spent less than 5 hours on this set of bindings...on a very mellow 50 foot bunny hill. So yeah...I think my complaint is valid. Just because you dont mind your stuff looking like poo after that very minimal amount of use does not mean the rest of us are ok with it. Maybe if people expected better from some companies they would actually meet those expectations.

I am not usually a complainer. I actually originally mentioned the paint as a side note to the discussion. Because that bothers me more than the ratchet issue....which for me has not been a huge issue.

I am not a retard, or someone who expects their gear to stay pristine forever. I did however expect it to last more than 5 hours on a nearly flat bunny hill. There are no rocks, no ice, nothing hitting the bindings. I put my board in a bag when storing it, and for the car ride up to the mountain. I do not carry my board by the bindings or lay it binding side down ever. So I think it is retarted to tell me that I should expect to have paint peeling at ths point.

Also.....as I have said several times, I still like the bindings. I still plan on keeping them. I still like these better than the other 3 pairs I returned. BUT, I did expect them to look nice for a little while. But I guess it is hard for some people to grasp that. If no one gives a crap what their gear looks like then I assume all of you are wearing solid colors with plain black bindings and head to toe monotone. Obviously we all DO care to some extent what we look like. If we didnt they would not sell boards with graphics or pink bindings.
 
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