Strewth Bindings - New Speed Entry System - Page 2 - Snowboarding Forum

BurtonAvenger · 01-13-2013, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strewth

Thanks for the replies. All good constructive stuff.

I did post a reply but it's disappeared into the internet, so sorry if this is a double up.

The main point to keep in mind is, this is a prototype. We haven't focused on making it pretty yet. The main point up to now has been to prove the concept.

Yes, the baseplate is thick. This is due to the prototype materials not being as strong as production materials, and therefore we've had to compensate. In and end production model with production materials the baseplate would be a normal thckness.

We have done a fair bit of stress testing so far, and even with prototype materials the binding has held up well. We'll be doing full scale stress testing with production materials and more riders come this southern winter.

Also, we're not aiming to be the next megacorp, just focusing on a niche market. There are people who liked step-ins, even with the problems, and some people just don't like Flows etc.

Thanks for all the comments and please keep them coming.

Evasive question dodger is evasive. Right now by not answering any of the questions posed you've proven to me that I will never support you. Seems to me this is another "we're too afraid to invest/leverage ourselves" scheme at getting to use other peoples money to play with.

BigmountainVMD · 01-13-2013, 03:14 PM

I think it is just obvious they need some real world testing for many seasons (assuming nothing goes wrong mechanically) before any of those questions can be answered.

TorpedoVegas · 01-13-2013, 03:23 PM

I don't like them... it's been done... you missed the party. Next!!!!

MarshallV82 · 01-13-2013, 03:31 PM

I'm with BA.

It's just not that hard to strap in and it's way more comforting.

BurtonAvenger · 01-13-2013, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigmountainVMD

I think it is just obvious they need some real world testing for many seasons (assuming nothing goes wrong mechanically) before any of those questions can be answered.

Well ideally yeah. But they claim 10 years of designing and testing. That right there is a decade of experience. The average snowboard company lasts less than half of that. It just bothers me when anyone asks a legitimate question about a brand and they dodge the question or use some kind of lame rhetoric to try and devalue the person asking the questions.

KIRKRIDER · 01-13-2013, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strewth

Thanks for the replies. All good constructive stuff.

I did post a reply but it's disappeared into the internet, so sorry if this is a double up.

The main point to keep in mind is, this is a prototype. We haven't focused on making it pretty yet. The main point up to now has been to prove the concept.

Yes, the baseplate is thick. This is due to the prototype materials not being as strong as production materials, and therefore we've had to compensate. In and end production model with production materials the baseplate would be a normal thckness.

We have done a fair bit of stress testing so far, and even with prototype materials the binding has held up well. We'll be doing full scale stress testing with production materials and more riders come this southern winter.

Also, we're not aiming to be the next megacorp, just focusing on a niche market. There are people who liked step-ins, even with the problems, and some people just don't like Flows etc.

Thanks for all the comments and please keep them coming.

I use K2 CTX and love them. My only doubt is on the trigger that low, moving it up on the highback would keep it away from the snow/ice. Another interesting feature I saw on rental bindings is the possibility to change angle on the fly releasing a lever that unlocks the base plate rotation.

Strewth · 01-13-2013, 05:16 PM

Thanks BA & all, see some more detailed answers below. Apologoies for the long post;

I see a solution that's already been done by 4 other binding companies. Also is it really that hard to bend at the waist and strap in? I haven't sat down to strap in, in about oh 15 years.
- The binding aims to appeal to those riders who for whatever reason don't like strapping in. It's not for everyone, but they are out there.

Looking at the design of it I can already see that it's flawed. You have more moving parts which = more potential for problems. Your baseplate is too thick and will deaden the feel. I'm guessing it's this thick to make room for the lever which has to function to release the straps
- Yes, more moving parts than a standard binding, but they have been kept pretty simple. Similar number of moving parts to a Cinch really. Making these robust and reliable has been a large part of testing so far. More to do.

Also do you feel 100k is enough start up capital to make molds?
- No. This is only aimed to be part of the funding. Molds alone can cost $150K plus.

Which factory are you using for this?
- We're talking to a couple, and have a preferred. Obviously can't talk names until the ink is dry. They are all reputable factories, making bindings for other brands.

Why do you feel your product is so much better than what is on the market from established brands?
- Personally, while there are lots of great bindings out there, we wanted something else, that would bring back the "step-in" idea, without all the drawbacks of the old models.It's purely a preference and is aimed to appeal to a certain group of riders.

What is your 1, 3,5,8, and 10 year plan?
- 1 year plan= get this initial campaign over the line, refine the design, get some initial product out. 2 Years = build on the momentum (hopefully), refine and improve. 3 - 8 years planning would be a bit premature at this point

The way I look at it, yet another company making an inferior product. I can see that now in the way you're prototyping and knowing that it takes at least 2 if not 3 to 4 years to get a binding to where it needs to be.
- You're correct about the time required. Our focus is to put out a solid reliable product first up. Build on all the feedback and continue to improve. No doubt there will be niggles/issues. Even Flow with all the experience has had issues with thier new toe straps for example. Now had to make the heelcups a bit bigger after feedback, and have issues with ladder straps. We're not comparing ourselves to them, we're new to it, but have some very experienced people helping out, but even the established guys have issues, and this is part of the process. It would be unrealistic to expect perfection day 1, but we'll be working damn hard towards making as solid binding as possible.

1) I agree with BA about the base. It looks too thick and it's off-putting. If you can't physically shrink it any, maybe you can disguise it in the design.
- This will be addressed for production

2) My concern is that because the mechanism is invisible (unlike Flow or Cinch) I tend not to trust it. You're going to have trust issues, so you'd better have a damned good warranty and make a big deal out of it.
- The handle is a visual cue. When unlocked the handle is up, when locked it is down. Agree, it will be a matter of getting on the mountain and under as many riders as possible, and backing it up if any issues.

3) You're at a disadvantage for the North American market because of your location.
- Valid point. If all goes well local US distribution & point of contact would be essential. Something for further down the road.

4) On the don't-trust-the-mechanism front, these things will need to be publicly play-tested a lot.(Absolutely).
I'd be concerned about accidental release, either from snow pushing up the lever, jarring impacts triggering the release, or just hard riding forcing it open.
- Lever position will be refined. So far the current location seems best. To release the binding the lever needs to be pulled and the boot lifted up at the same time. Rider weight keeps the binding closed, so even if the lever is momentarily lifted by an obsticle, the binding won't release. No issues so far, more testing to be done.

5) Ugly. - Yep, it's a prototype. More prettying up to be done.

slyder · 01-13-2013, 06:21 PM

a few more thoughts.

How easy will it be to fit a finger of a glove in there to release the lever??
What if I'm wearing mittens, I don't want to remove my mitten to release the binding
you have to bend down farther to reach the release lever unlike Flow or K2 the release is up on the high back
How do I release the binding if I'm sitting down??

Just thinking out loud, good luck with the new venture.

Strewth · 01-13-2013, 07:19 PM

How easy will it be to fit a finger of a glove in there to release the lever??
-It's actually pretty easy. There is nothing directly underneath the lever, so lot's of clearance to get a gloved hand on. Have found it generally an easier action then releasing a buckle.

What if I'm wearing mittens, I don't want to remove my mitten to release the binding
- Lever is long enough and lots of clearance to accommodate a glove or mitten, so have found no issue there so far.

You have to bend down farther to reach the release lever unlike Flow or K2 the release is up on the high back.
- With a Flow you need to reach around behind the leg. The current lever location seems a bit more natural, and have found generally easier than releasing a hiback lever. The being on the side rather than behind seems to compensate for the extra distance, ie you end up bending about the same.

How do I release the binding if I'm sitting down??
-The heelcup & hiback is a traditional two piece setup, ie not a one piece like a Flow. Therefore the heelcup can open more than the hiback which makes it easier when sitting down than a one piece hiback, which must lay flat before exiting. ie the heelcup can be fully open, but the hiback can be folded forward somewhat (as it would be when sitting) and still be able to exit. It's easier standing up, but is easier sitting down than the current designs.

earl_je · 01-13-2013, 07:23 PM

Watched the video before reading the posts and as soon as I saw the quick release lever, I immediately thought "..oh. I can just see myself accidentally releasing this thing at the park and tree runs" without physically testing it, it's already a big concern to me how it's so easy to release. Might I suggest maybe pulling it slightly out then up? Then again if I wear mitts it will be damn frustrating to pull the lever out so, idk.

It's always good to see new innovations in the works, the competition always forces other companies to innovate and improve their designs as well. Good luck.

01-13-2013, 03:31 PM	#14 (permalink)
MarshallV82 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 416	I'm with BA. It's just not that hard to strap in and it's way more comforting. Last edited by MarshallV82; 01-13-2013 at 03:52 PM.

01-13-2013, 06:21 PM	#18 (permalink)
slyder Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Milwaukee Suburbs Posts: 1,922	a few more thoughts. How easy will it be to fit a finger of a glove in there to release the lever?? What if I'm wearing mittens, I don't want to remove my mitten to release the binding you have to bend down farther to reach the release lever unlike Flow or K2 the release is up on the high back How do I release the binding if I'm sitting down?? Just thinking out loud, good luck with the new venture. __________________ Thanks -Slyder

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01-13-2013, 03:14 PM	#12 (permalink)
BigmountainVMD Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 688	I think it is just obvious they need some real world testing for many seasons (assuming nothing goes wrong mechanically) before any of those questions can be answered.

01-13-2013, 03:23 PM	#13 (permalink)
TorpedoVegas Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 343	I don't like them... it's been done... you missed the party. Next!!!!

01-13-2013, 05:16 PM	#17 (permalink)
Strewth Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 14	Thanks BA & all, see some more detailed answers below. Apologoies for the long post; I see a solution that's already been done by 4 other binding companies. Also is it really that hard to bend at the waist and strap in? I haven't sat down to strap in, in about oh 15 years. - The binding aims to appeal to those riders who for whatever reason don't like strapping in. It's not for everyone, but they are out there. Looking at the design of it I can already see that it's flawed. You have more moving parts which = more potential for problems. Your baseplate is too thick and will deaden the feel. I'm guessing it's this thick to make room for the lever which has to function to release the straps - Yes, more moving parts than a standard binding, but they have been kept pretty simple. Similar number of moving parts to a Cinch really. Making these robust and reliable has been a large part of testing so far. More to do. Also do you feel 100k is enough start up capital to make molds? - No. This is only aimed to be part of the funding. Molds alone can cost $150K plus. Which factory are you using for this? - We're talking to a couple, and have a preferred. Obviously can't talk names until the ink is dry. They are all reputable factories, making bindings for other brands. Why do you feel your product is so much better than what is on the market from established brands? - Personally, while there are lots of great bindings out there, we wanted something else, that would bring back the "step-in" idea, without all the drawbacks of the old models.It's purely a preference and is aimed to appeal to a certain group of riders. What is your 1, 3,5,8, and 10 year plan? - 1 year plan= get this initial campaign over the line, refine the design, get some initial product out. 2 Years = build on the momentum (hopefully), refine and improve. 3 - 8 years planning would be a bit premature at this point The way I look at it, yet another company making an inferior product. I can see that now in the way you're prototyping and knowing that it takes at least 2 if not 3 to 4 years to get a binding to where it needs to be. - You're correct about the time required. Our focus is to put out a solid reliable product first up. Build on all the feedback and continue to improve. No doubt there will be niggles/issues. Even Flow with all the experience has had issues with thier new toe straps for example. Now had to make the heelcups a bit bigger after feedback, and have issues with ladder straps. We're not comparing ourselves to them, we're new to it, but have some very experienced people helping out, but even the established guys have issues, and this is part of the process. It would be unrealistic to expect perfection day 1, but we'll be working damn hard towards making as solid binding as possible. 1) I agree with BA about the base. It looks too thick and it's off-putting. If you can't physically shrink it any, maybe you can disguise it in the design. - This will be addressed for production 2) My concern is that because the mechanism is invisible (unlike Flow or Cinch) I tend not to trust it. You're going to have trust issues, so you'd better have a damned good warranty and make a big deal out of it. - The handle is a visual cue. When unlocked the handle is up, when locked it is down. Agree, it will be a matter of getting on the mountain and under as many riders as possible, and backing it up if any issues. 3) You're at a disadvantage for the North American market because of your location. - Valid point. If all goes well local US distribution & point of contact would be essential. Something for further down the road. 4) On the don't-trust-the-mechanism front, these things will need to be publicly play-tested a lot.(Absolutely). I'd be concerned about accidental release, either from snow pushing up the lever, jarring impacts triggering the release, or just hard riding forcing it open. - Lever position will be refined. So far the current location seems best. To release the binding the lever needs to be pulled and the boot lifted up at the same time. Rider weight keeps the binding closed, so even if the lever is momentarily lifted by an obsticle, the binding won't release. No issues so far, more testing to be done. 5) Ugly. - Yep, it's a prototype. More prettying up to be done.

01-13-2013, 07:19 PM	#19 (permalink)
Strewth Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 14	How easy will it be to fit a finger of a glove in there to release the lever?? -It's actually pretty easy. There is nothing directly underneath the lever, so lot's of clearance to get a gloved hand on. Have found it generally an easier action then releasing a buckle. What if I'm wearing mittens, I don't want to remove my mitten to release the binding - Lever is long enough and lots of clearance to accommodate a glove or mitten, so have found no issue there so far. You have to bend down farther to reach the release lever unlike Flow or K2 the release is up on the high back. - With a Flow you need to reach around behind the leg. The current lever location seems a bit more natural, and have found generally easier than releasing a hiback lever. The being on the side rather than behind seems to compensate for the extra distance, ie you end up bending about the same. How do I release the binding if I'm sitting down?? -The heelcup & hiback is a traditional two piece setup, ie not a one piece like a Flow. Therefore the heelcup can open more than the hiback which makes it easier when sitting down than a one piece hiback, which must lay flat before exiting. ie the heelcup can be fully open, but the hiback can be folded forward somewhat (as it would be when sitting) and still be able to exit. It's easier standing up, but is easier sitting down than the current designs.

01-13-2013, 07:23 PM	#20 (permalink)
earl_je Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Keystone, CO Posts: 824	Watched the video before reading the posts and as soon as I saw the quick release lever, I immediately thought "..oh. I can just see myself accidentally releasing this thing at the park and tree runs" without physically testing it, it's already a big concern to me how it's so easy to release. Might I suggest maybe pulling it slightly out then up? Then again if I wear mitts it will be damn frustrating to pull the lever out so, idk. It's always good to see new innovations in the works, the competition always forces other companies to innovate and improve their designs as well. Good luck.