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post #71 of 91 (permalink) Old 07-10-2013, 07:46 PM
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Union has been one of the most disappointing company's for me these last couple of years. Every season i would hope they'd fix their binding issues and honestly they really never did, or a new one popped up. Really glad to see them using some new designs and hopefully this year changes things as i will be demoing some ASAP.

Hate to be a dick in my first post but i could never understand the hype around the Forces. Could of been one of the shittiest bindings i have ever owned.
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post #72 of 91 (permalink) Old 07-10-2013, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Gnarnia View Post
Union has been one of the most disappointing company's for me these last couple of years. Every season i would hope they'd fix their binding issues and honestly they really never did, or a new one popped up. Really glad to see them using some new designs and hopefully this year changes things as i will be demoing some ASAP.

Hate to be a dick in my first post but i could never understand the hype around the Forces. Could of been one of the shittiest bindings i have ever owned.
It's obviously all personal preference, but the vast amounts of people riding them would beg to differ.

What specific issues did you run into with them?


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post #73 of 91 (permalink) Old 07-10-2013, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik View Post
It's obviously all personal preference, but the vast amounts of people riding them would beg to differ.

What specific issues did you run into with them?
Well first off the toe strap gave me nightmares and the ratchets would give me trouble every now and again. I was not a fan of the feel of the binding as i found it very cheaply made. My biggest issue with union as a company is for the last couple years i rode the forces, they haven't fixed any major issues of the bindings.
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post #74 of 91 (permalink) Old 07-11-2013, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Gnarnia View Post
Well first off the toe strap gave me nightmares and the ratchets would give me trouble every now and again. I was not a fan of the feel of the binding as i found it very cheaply made. My biggest issue with union as a company is for the last couple years i rode the forces, they haven't fixed any major issues of the bindings.
We've hashed and rehashed the toe-strap/ankle-buckle several times here, but let's do it again.

1. Our toe straps have been changed for 13/14 to accommodate for a wider range of boots. ie) toe box designs. All our friends, team riders, employees and other people who provide feedback, generally use the same boot brands. ThirtyTwo, Nike, DC, Deeluxe, Burton and some Vans. I can't think of a single person who gets product from Union that would ride a boot not listed there. Anyway, over the past 2 years, we have spent a boat load of $$$ buying boots from all companies to cover a wider base. It will never be perfect, but we feel that if we can cover 90% of the boots out there, we are doing a decent job.

The most important change with toe straps, is they are 2x more adjustable. I'd say most of the time, the issue with straps slipping was due to them not being adjusted correctly. A lot of people don't realize that you can use your heelcup to micro adjust your toe straps (that only works if you're running your disks perpendicular to board edge though). For 13/14, the adjustment piece has twice as many holes. Beauty.

2. Ratchets - Goal #1 with ratchets is to make sure they NEVER open on their own. Anybody see what happened to Matt Ladley at X Games?? imgur: the simple image sharer If you're at Hood next week, check out what bindings he paid for with his own money so that doesn't happen again.

We've redesigned the mechanism and changed the ladder strap for smoother glide. Here again, it needs to be adjusted correctly. If the toe strap is too long, the old ones get stuck. Correct adjustment is everything.

3. Feeling of the binding - Personal preference. You're correct that they ride different than everything else.

4. In your other post, you said they feel cheap. Here's a quick list of facts:

Nylon injection: Union is the only binding exclusively using Dupont Zytel ST. It's the most expensive nylon available because it's the best by far. It's not even debatable. It allows us to offer a Lifetime Warranty on all Nylon parts. Also, all our nylon is 1st generation, which is important to point out. Durability.

EVA material: We only use 1st generation injected EVA. No reground pressed cheap stuff. Better dampening and durability.

Hardware: We use Grade 8.8 hardware on everything. It's more expensive, but worth it. Better security.

Weight: Union makes the lightest bindings across the board. Grab a scale and see for yourself.

Injected Aluminum: Our process comes out 100% pure. Stamped heelcups (all other aluminum heelcups on the market) have been compromised because they are stamped out of dirty sheets of aluminum (which are pressed, not injected), then bent to shape. You can grab one un-assembled with your hands and easily bend it. You can't do that with ours. Durability.

Magnesium Buckles: Stronger and lighter than aluminum. I haven't seen a broken buckle lever in years. The reason you don't see it on other bindings is because it's an expensive process. Again, investing in materials for durability and end value.

The goal from Day 1 is to build the strongest binding possible. Sorry for the looooong post. The whole reason I'm on here is to answer questions honestly, and gather feedback. Hopefully I've done that in this post.

Thanks for reading.
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post #75 of 91 (permalink) Old 07-11-2013, 02:00 PM
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I don't have any problems with my 12/13 ratchets. They are a bit hard to get off but the push down then pull method works pretty like a charm!

My only small issue is the paint on the metal part of my heel cup chipped off, but that was prolly my own fault.

Loving my atlas! but I havent had much to compare it to besides some missions.
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post #76 of 91 (permalink) Old 07-11-2013, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Gnarnia View Post
Union has been one of the most disappointing company's for me these last couple of years. Every season i would hope they'd fix their binding issues and honestly they really never did, or a new one popped up. Really glad to see them using some new designs and hopefully this year changes things as i will be demoing some ASAP.

Hate to be a dick in my first post but i could never understand the hype around the Forces. Could of been one of the shittiest bindings i have ever owned.
Jesus christ another one of these idiots.
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post #77 of 91 (permalink) Old 07-12-2013, 10:07 PM
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Feedback huh? I'll try to be nice.

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Originally Posted by UNION INHOUSE View Post
1.we have spent a boat load of $$$ buying boots from all companies to cover a wider base.
A boat load of money? Ride, K2, Flow, Salomon. You already had the other major brands. Figure you buy 2 boots from each brand, a low end and a high end. Figure at full retail that's about $450 a brand. Times 4 you spent $1800. I wouldn't call that a boat load for a brand that just bougt a factory of their own.

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Originally Posted by UNION INHOUSE View Post
2.If the toe strap is too long, the old ones get stuck. Correct adjustment is everything.
Careful the way you treat this. While it isn't necessarily an uncommon occurrence in bindings I'd be careful not to end up sounding like Steve Jobs when the iPhone 4 first dropped. "The antenna works fine, you just have to hold it just like this".

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Originally Posted by UNION INHOUSE View Post
Nylon injection: Union is the only binding exclusively using Dupont Zytel ST. It's the most expensive nylon available because it's the best by far. It's not even debatable. It allows us to offer a Lifetime Warranty on all Nylon parts. Also, all our nylon is 1st generation, which is important to point out. Durability.
Legitimate question as I sell your stuff and have never heard as such. Your site lists your highbacks as Dupont Zytel ST. You say here you provide lifetime warranties on everything Nylon. Does that apply to highbacks? To my knowledge Salomon is the only brand offering lifetime on highbacks, this would be a huge selling point and if it is the case I'd make sure your reps are letting salesmen know this at clinics.

On Zytel. I have a small understanding of materials engineering. All I could find that made Zytel any better than Polycarb without a name brand on it was it is less chemically reactive and has a better ability to maintain it's build characteristics over varying temperatures. Granted in some cases for certain riders varying temperatures could mean -40 to 60 degrees Fahrenheit. The other issue I ran into was Dupont doesn't offer a reference as to what greater termperature ranges really means. Understanding the other applications Dupont is touting a 100 degree change with the application of a snowboard binding didn't strike me as significant. Personally I'd love to see some articles or paperwork giving some numbers to back up the claim Zytel is superior in every way for a snwoboard binding.

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Originally Posted by UNION INHOUSE View Post
Hardware: We use Grade 8.8 hardware on everything. It's more expensive, but worth it. Better security.
Not really a durability issue, but we had probably 8-10 pairs of bindings come back into the shop out of the probably 60 or so we sold with seized highback adjuster bolts. I had 2 of the 3 pairs I owned do the same thing on at least on bolt.

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Originally Posted by UNION INHOUSE View Post
Injected Aluminum: Our process comes out 100% pure. Stamped heelcups (all other aluminum heelcups on the market) have been compromised because they are stamped out of dirty sheets of aluminum (which are pressed, not injected), then bent to shape. You can grab one un-assembled with your hands and easily bend it. You can't do that with ours. Durability.
The most common breaks I see on Unions are blown ratchets, cracked highbacks, and cracked heelcups. I'd rather something bend than crack. I did see the better shaping in the heelcup from I think the Force up at the show and it should be better suited to a downward force.

I've been saying it since SIA, I want to get in the new Forces. You fixed all of my personal issues with that binding and I genuinely have high hopes.

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Last edited by Nivek; 07-12-2013 at 10:13 PM.
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post #78 of 91 (permalink) Old 07-14-2013, 10:16 PM
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the contact pro doesn't have carbon injected base anymore.

The force looks good.


Union should make canted footbeds for the new and old force as a package (1 , 2,3 degrees) and or just individual package sets. And charge like 20$ they will make a killing of additional cash to existing customer base.

If they don't come out with it, someone out there will. Or there is the put a strap underneath the footbed and get a bigger screw.
+1. Totally agree.
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post #79 of 91 (permalink) Old 07-14-2013, 11:52 PM
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Jesus christ another one of these idiots.
What was idiotic about my post? I have literally rode every single pair of forces released since 09. Why do you think there are so many complains about the ratchets and toe straps from customers? I'm sorry to piss on your favorite company but open your eyes, jesus. I'd ride a pair of technine bindings ANY DAY over the entire 2012 union binding line (except the Atlas bindings of coarse).
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post #80 of 91 (permalink) Old 07-15-2013, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Gnarnia View Post
What was idiotic about my post? I have literally rode every single pair of forces released since 09. Why do you think there are so many complains about the ratchets and toe straps from customers? I'm sorry to piss on your favorite company but open your eyes, jesus. I'd ride a pair of technine bindings ANY DAY over the entire 2012 union binding line (except the Atlas bindings of coarse).
Ignore him if you're not cupping the companies balls he likes you're a moron.


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