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Old 07-16-2013, 06:47 PM   #81 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=Nivek;1005817]Feedback huh? I'll try to be nice.

A boat load of money? Ride, K2, Flow, Salomon. You already had the other major brands. Figure you buy 2 boots from each brand, a low end and a high end. Figure at full retail that's about $450 a brand. Times 4 you spent $1800. I wouldn't call that a boat load for a brand that just bougt a factory of their own.

Sorry for the vague "boat load" reference. We bought a pretty big range of sizes and models from each of these companies. Sizes 6-12 sprinkled around. I'll put it this way, we have a 900 square foot room full of boot racks. A lot of the boots we got for free, and we paid for the rest. Easily more thank 5K euro. I consider that a lot of money.

I assume you're talking about the Capita factory. Capita and Union are different companies. Separate countries, separate banks and different employees (with the exception of Joni Makinen).

Legitimate question as I sell your stuff and have never heard as such. Your site lists your highbacks as Dupont Zytel ST. You say here you provide lifetime warranties on everything Nylon. Does that apply to highbacks? To my knowledge Salomon is the only brand offering lifetime on highbacks, this would be a huge selling point and if it is the case I'd make sure your reps are letting salesmen know this at clinics.

Lifetime warranty on all plastic parts.

On Zytel. I have a small understanding of materials engineering. All I could find that made Zytel any better than Polycarb without a name brand on it was it is less chemically reactive and has a better ability to maintain it's build characteristics over varying temperatures. Granted in some cases for certain riders varying temperatures could mean -40 to 60 degrees Fahrenheit. The other issue I ran into was Dupont doesn't offer a reference as to what greater termperature ranges really means. Understanding the other applications Dupont is touting a 100 degree change with the application of a snowboard binding didn't strike me as significant. Personally I'd love to see some articles or paperwork giving some numbers to back up the claim Zytel is superior in every way for a snwoboard binding.

You're right, Zytel ST maintains it's flex and strength in a wider temp range. It also holds up to impact (like smacking a rail) better. It's less brittle, and stronger in thin areas like highbacks. This is key because you can design things thinner, where you want flex, and still have strength.

The reason they don't offer references is because the characteristics vary, depending on the temp and humidity at the time of injection.


Not really a durability issue, but we had probably 8-10 pairs of bindings come back into the shop out of the probably 60 or so we sold with seized highback adjuster bolts. I had 2 of the 3 pairs I owned do the same thing on at least on bolt.

Cross threading. Do you think it could be something else? It's kind of a double edged sword, because we use small threads on that hardware because it's less likely to loosen up. The problem is that makes them easier to cross thread. If we go with a bigger thread, we'll have less cross threading and more hardware loosening.


The most common breaks I see on Unions are blown ratchets, cracked highbacks, and cracked heelcups. I'd rather something bend than crack. I did see the better shaping in the heelcup from I think the Force up at the show and it should be better suited to a downward force.


Cracking heelcups? Do you guys have any laying around the shop? Send me a pic. Trust me, this is not a common thing.


I'm assuming you've been riding for a long time Kevin, and working in a shop I bet you see the same customer always coming back with issues. His speed lace busted, his ratched busted, the zipper on his coat busted.... They treat ratchets like they're trying to tighten a lug nut on a car. It seems like people who have been riding for a long time are more gentle with their ratchets, thus the springs and pins don't break. They don't spaz out when zipping their jacket, and the zipper never breaks. Know what I mean?

The hardest thing design on a binding is the ratchet. I'm not saying ours are perfect, but IMO they are as good as anything out there, and never pop open on their own.

Remember, this started because somebody posted that our bindings suck and are cheaply built.
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:44 PM   #82 (permalink)
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That makes a lot more sense with the boot $$ comment. That is definitely something I like hearing and does instill a lot more confidence in the new design.

I'll take your repetition "Lifetime warranty on all plastic parts" that you do in fact offer lifetime on highbacks. I will start letting customers know this.

On Zytel again, this is kinda why I asked for any empirical data that isn't brand-only knowledge. It may be that Duponts polycarb does in fact have all these benefits you speak of, but when you start adding carbon and/or glass and the varying levels and types, things can change quite drastically. That I can think of without really going and digging Union is the only binding company using a branded polycarb. It's hard to take on word that it's better in every way. After all, advil is just ibuprofen.

It might be cross threading, but its been the same system at least since 2007. I can't imagine that it has only become a problem in the last 2 years. There are ways to build it with larger threads to avoid cross threading and keep them from backing out.

I'll be clearer with the heelcup issue, I never had any come back in shop. These are instances from friends and friends of friends. One aspect I have always spoken of in my personal experience with Union is your working durability. Things break, but I never had anything break that made them unrideable.


I know that distribution doesn't equal same money. I was under the impression that Capita and Union were closer financially than just distribution. My apologize for the assumption.

In case it was the impression, I didn't jump on this to back up the basher. Your post raised some questions of mine and gave me an opportunity to mention some other things. Since our conversations are getting more and more civil I figured it'd be a good time to bring up some things that others would have just yelled at me about 8 months ago.
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Old 07-28-2013, 08:56 AM   #83 (permalink)
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I'd like to ask which Union bindings to buy for next season. I have a 12-13 K2 Playback and i have been trying to decide on whether i should get the Contact Pros, Atlas or the new force. Anyone who can help me with this?
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Old 07-28-2013, 07:22 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unanko View Post
I'd like to ask which Union bindings to buy for next season. I have a 12-13 K2 Playback and i have been trying to decide on whether i should get the Contact Pros, Atlas or the new force. Anyone who can help me with this?
Can't go wrong with any of those choices. The new Contact Pro's and Force are redesigned so scoop one up and let us know what you think.
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Old 07-30-2013, 02:50 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Like Extremo said, all are good choices.

(only speaking from what I know about 2013)
Contact pros are hella light have a lot of lateral flex (which I like). They also seem to work just as well on a really soft board as a stiffer one.

Forces are more responsive and have a taller highback, they're plenty comfortable and you get a LOT of response out of them if you crank the forward lean.

Atlas is somewhere in the middle....probably my favorite binding. Super comfortable and soft and mellow when you need them to be, and responsive when you need them to be.
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Old 10-04-2013, 05:53 AM   #86 (permalink)
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First of HI!

I got these flows nxt-fs for two seasons but they really never worked. so i was looking at some unions to get this year but im in doubt. i own a forum 2010 substance which i love and take really good care off. I also own a pair of 32 prions. the thing is these flow things kill my foot and when they are very loose well they are loose and dont work at all and i cramp up both ways. so now i want the control but also the flex and comfort to go with my board.

i was thinking of the contact pro´s to promote my board flex and comfort. im still searching and i hope i can get some advice from you and the dude from union.
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Old 10-04-2013, 11:24 AM   #87 (permalink)
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I might be finally jumping off the Burton binding bandwagon for some Union Factorys... Love the canting and the stiff highbacks that maintain torsional flexibility.
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:40 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sander View Post
First of HI!

I got these flows nxt-fs for two seasons but they really never worked. so i was looking at some unions to get this year but im in doubt. i own a forum 2010 substance which i love and take really good care off. I also own a pair of 32 prions. the thing is these flow things kill my foot and when they are very loose well they are loose and dont work at all and i cramp up both ways. so now i want the control but also the flex and comfort to go with my board.

i was thinking of the contact pro´s to promote my board flex and comfort. im still searching and i hope i can get some advice from you and the dude from union.
Sounds more like a boot issue than a binding issue. Pions are a low end boot. Chancs are they never fit right or if they did they've broken down.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:31 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Hi thanks for the reply. The boot i bought after testing and altough low end the problem does not excist when riding burton custom x with missons on them hence my remark and thoughline to bindings. Sounds ok?

I can offcourse look into it

Last edited by Sander; 10-04-2013 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 02-07-2014, 03:42 AM   #90 (permalink)
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Lads, could you rotate highbacks on new Forces like on Atlas?
Can't find this feature in description.
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