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Old 01-21-2013, 06:55 AM   #21 (permalink)
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i guess you didn't read what he bought. Mission bindings are not low quality. wayyyyyy better than anything from Ride hahahahahahahaha

Please tell me you're joking.
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Old 01-21-2013, 11:47 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I got the impression that the Missions were basically the same as last year's cartels? Either way, the guy at the shop agreed that the toe strap was dodgy. Unfortunately they didnt have spare parts so it is being sent back for warranty and hopefully will have it back for next weekend.

As for the boots, apparently the heat molding is only possible on the top-end boots, and he reminded me that i needed to spend at least 30 minutes wearing the boots in the house/warm temperature. Being that my house is shoes-off, i spent the rest of the day shopping while wearing the boots (yeah i felt like lil wayne). My feet werent sore after that so i hope it will be ok at the snow.
I'm not so sure on the Missions being last years Cartels; however, I find that any boots, and bindings under 200 dollars from Burton are pretty shoddy. I had a 2 pairs of Moto boots from them that lasted only two seasons before the stitching came undone, teh leather started to tear, and the lasces starting to fray. I had a pair of missions that lasted also 2 seasons before the ladders started to strip, and the ratchets kept slipping. So I switched my bindings to Ride and Rome, and have no trouble with any of their bindings going on 3 seasons now and got a higher end Burton Boot, the Restricted Hail (Burton really has nice, comfortable boots). I also live near Mt. Hood so I get in nearly 100+ days in. So my stuff has to be pretty solid, so maybe that's why the my Missions deterioated so fast, but that still isn't an excuse to make a poor quality binding, especially at that price point.
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:33 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I hope he is.
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:36 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Supra View Post
i guess you didn't read what he bought. Mission bindings are not low quality. wayyyyyy better than anything from Ride hahahahahahahaha


to the OP, wear just the inners around your house. I'm in the process of breaking in a pair. At first, just start with short time periods. Don't let it get too painful otherwise you'll develop a bruise that won't heal til the season's over. Sounds like your bindings should be warrantied (which you're doing) and maybe your boots too.
You're joking right? Nothing Burton makes matches the quality of Ride and Rome bindings. Most of their stuff is overpriced garbage. Basically anything under 200 dollars from Burton sucks and deteriorates fast. It's all right to have your own opinion, but Missions are pretty low quality.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:29 PM   #25 (permalink)
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ahem.

AssassinMonLV,

I'm going to give you a little insight into our buckles.
1. We invented the self retracting buckle which first appeared on our 1995 binding line. One of the engineers on that project was Paul Maravetz. He's also largely responsible for the Burton Custom and Balance boards models. Now he's the co-owner of Rome snowboards and their principle board engineer. He's an incredible engineer and phenomenally nice guy.

2. Starting in 2002, 10 buckles produced out of each production lot, per hour, are put through a cycle test at -20 degrees F. They are cycled 5,000 times by a machines that we engineered and then made because we can't walk into a hardware store and buy a machine to test the things we make.

An average snowboarder rides roughly 7 days a year. They take 10 runs per day. And they cycle the lever 4 times before taking each run. That means in an average season half of the buckles (due to the front boot strapped and being cycled less) we make see 280 cycles.

After that testing, we have a crew of on-snow testers that will ride each binding model we make from between 40 and 200 hours. Some even up to 900 hours.

Some folks, as our customers or potential customers, ride more and some less, but our buckles are tested to not fail for 17 seasons and not break.

Some do and we totally get that. That's why we have a spare parts department that determines the failure rate in the field (real world environment) and places spare parts into resort and city shops to a replacement can easily be found.

Why? Because we know that a buckle get's touched more than any other component that we make. The more something gets touched, the more prone it is to failure.

3. the issue that tokyo_dom is experiencing is due to this:
- the metal lever is attached to metal teeth in a single component. the tongue is a softer polymer call TPU (thermo poly-urethane). The metal, a cast molded 6061 Aluminum, is wearing the teeth on the TPU tongue because the users hand is twisting the lever a little bit. It's common and it's not that big of a deal. In fact it basically happens with every buckle and tongue combo in the industry.

So, our upper binding models over $200.00 US Dollars have a dual component buckle where the barrel of the buckle (which had the teeth) is plastic, polycarbonate to be specific, and operate somewhat independently of the metal lever. As the teeth on the barrel and tongue (TPU Ladder Strap) are both a plastic, it is less likely to wear either part.

This buckle which is featured on all Burton Bindings above $200.00 USD, has more parts, enough that we can only afford to put in on higher end models due to how many parts it has.

All that said; i'm sorry you feel like our craftsmanship below a Cartel is shoddy or sub-par. But it's tested to the exact same standards as our highest end bindings and have been for over a decade.

Should you have any further questions, I'd gladly have a conversation with you about what specifically in the product that we make is felt to be sub-par assuming that this is not a faceless and uneducated comment based on your thought or thoughts / opinions towards the brand i'm employed by and not the quantitative quality of the product that myself and my team make.
Honestly.

Regards,
Chip Bleakney
Burton Bindings _ Product Manager

Last edited by BurtonBindings; 01-23-2013 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:49 PM   #26 (permalink)
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^^^ great post


and I wasn't joking. I have to admit though, I have never ridden Ride or Rome bindings. I did pick up some capos and another pair of Ride's in the store 2 days ago while I was waiting for my wife to get some stuff. All I could think was how Burton's manufacturing is so smooth compared to Ride's.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:00 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurtonBindings View Post
3. the issue that tokyo_dom is experiencing is due to this:
- the metal lever is attached to metal teeth in a single component. the tongue is a softer polymer call TPU (thermo poly-urethane). The metal, a cast molded 6061 Aluminum, is wearing the teeth on the TPU tongue because the users hand is twisting the lever a little bit. It's common and it's not that big of a deal. In fact it basically happens with every buckle and tongue combo in the industry.
Thanks for the response (even if it was mainly for AssasinMonLV). As for the twisting of the hand, I spent some time looking at the angles of the teeth vs the ladder strap. It might be hard to see from the picture i put up, but it was off at an angle compared to the strap sleeve. In order for it to have any traction, i actually had to twist it the other way, while applying a fair amount of pressure to the front of the ratchet. Simply applying pressure straight down was not enough.

But the shop assistant agreed with me, and he had a very hard time ratcheting it down as well, which is why it is off for warranty repairs at the moment. Its a pity that they werent one of the privileged shops to get spare parts, because now i am left hoping they can get the binding back before the weekend.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BurtonBindings View Post
This buckle which is featured on all Burton Bindings above $200.00 USD, has more parts, enough that we can only afford to put in on higher end models due to how many parts it has.
Oh how it sucks to be me here in Japan
Mission Snowboard Binding | Burton Snowboards
Mission Restricted Retails at 34,650 yen, or $390 USD at current exchange rates. I was extremely lucky to have found a pair at a much lower price than that - but still over $200 USD

Mind you the bindings are the least of my problems now as the 39,900yen ($450 USD) retail Ambush boots appear to have inner boot inconsistencies that make them unbearably tight on one side only - even after spending a few hours walking around town like LiL-wayne. I suppose this is also one of the lower end boots in the US though :-/
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:55 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Nope. You have a great set up.
And your buckles are actually functioning fine although new tongues may be in order after the season. Ride them, you'll be fine.

Now or then, call rider service in Japan and ask for Kaz, the hardgoods specialist. Explain your situation and tell him that Chip in Bindings asked you to talk to him specifically. He and i will sort the details and Burton will send you parts after our conversation.

If that's too much off a hassle, walk into Murasaki in Shibuya and they should have parts for you.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:34 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Thanks for that, i will call him tonight when i finish work.
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:53 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tokyo_dom View Post
Thanks for the response (even if it was mainly for AssasinMonLV). As for the twisting of the hand, I spent some time looking at the angles of the teeth vs the ladder strap. It might be hard to see from the picture i put up, but it was off at an angle compared to the strap sleeve. In order for it to have any traction, i actually had to twist it the other way, while applying a fair amount of pressure to the front of the ratchet. Simply applying pressure straight down was not enough.

But the shop assistant agreed with me, and he had a very hard time ratcheting it down as well, which is why it is off for warranty repairs at the moment. Its a pity that they werent one of the privileged shops to get spare parts, because now i am left hoping they can get the binding back before the weekend.

Spare parts aren't going to solve this issue. This this is just a function of the Burton design. I currently own 2 sets of these straps and they both do the same thing. Same with my Flux, although less so than the Burton. I also owned a set of Technine Team bindings in which this problem was much worse.

What happens is as you ratchet the toe strap the cap tightens and conforms to the toe of the boot. This creates a misalignment of the ratchet and ladder (or tongue as its referred to by BurtonBindings), and thus you have the skipping. So you can't really ever get them as tight as you can a Union, Ride, or Raiden toe strap because the more you tighten the burton cap the more out of alignment it becomes. Flux's design is better and as long as you keep the cap in alignment (which I find is relatively easy) you can tighten it all the way without any skipping.

You don't find this problem with Union, Ride, or Raiden, regardless of which position the strap is in, probably because they don't use a true cap as burton does and thus doesn't have the same twisting effect that this type of cap creates.

Another problem is the burton ratchets are quicker to release, they have a longer lever and it pivots and lifts easier than a Union or Ride ratchet design, which adds to this problem.

This is my personal experience with the ratchets. I understand others may have had better experiences and no problems at all.
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