Choosing b/w Cartels/Union SL's/ Ride Maestro - Page 7 - Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums
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post #61 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-02-2013, 09:10 PM
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shoot, they still have any more at that price where you got it from?!
They still have 'em in stock, not sure of the colors if that matters. evo.com
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post #62 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-03-2013, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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It means what you wrote is wrong.
Well how about elaborating, saying I'm wrong and not posting any relevant information to the contrary is just useless.

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post #63 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-03-2013, 02:48 PM
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Well how about elaborating, saying I'm wrong and not posting any relevant information to the contrary is just useless.
I did, about 10 hours before your post
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post #64 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-03-2013, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hktrdr View Post
I did, about 10 hours before your post

Well then you're not correct, there is no way the SL is stiffer the the MC. The MC High back is a solid piece where the SL is not. In addition to that, the MC high back is made out of carbon fiber which is rigid and responsive, the SL has a carved out asymmetrical polymer type substance high back which is where that torsional flex comes from. As you can see they are completely opposite in terms of flexibility. Until this year when the charger beats out everything in terms of stiffness the SL's were a step under the MC Metafuse. Google reviews of the MC and they will tell you the same thing I am.

Like my original post said, I cant comment on the other parts of their line, so you may be right about those. But until the charger was redone this year the MC was top then came the SL.

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post #65 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-03-2013, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DrEwTiMe View Post
Well then you not correct, there is no way SL is stiffer the the MC, the highback has a crap ton more torsional flex where as the MC is solid. MC is also made out of carbon fiber which is rigid and responsive, the SL has a carved out asymmetrical high back. Until this year when the charger beats out everything in terms of stiffness the SL's were a step under the MC Metafuse. Google reviews of the MC and they will tell you what I am.

Like my original post said, I cant comment on the other parts of their line, so you may be right about those. But until the charger was redone this year the MC was top then came the SL.
Complete and utter horse shit. Even the Union reps (both Johan and George) on this site have clearly stated the opposite - e.g., here and here.
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post #66 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-03-2013, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
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It actually seems like both of them would rather not rate them on stiffness but were forced to because of questions. So its a matter of opinion it seems...
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post #67 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-03-2013, 08:55 PM
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It actually seems like both of them would rather not rate them on stiffness but were forced to because of questions. So its a matter of opinion it seems...
Wrong. As I have stated before, Union prefers not to get into flex ratings for a number of reasons (people misunderstand the whole flex/responsiveness thing, changes between models from year to year, flex of different parts of the bindings, etc.), but the facts are quite clear:
  • SL and MC have fundamentally the same baseplate - Atlas Stage III. However, MC is cored out - hence, not as stiff. Stage II baseplate on the Force is 'beefier' and stiffer than either.
  • SL and MC highbacks are very, very similar - carbon is used in the MC to reduce weight, not to increase stiffness. Force highbacks are quite different, but at least as stiff in most respects.

Therefore, overall stiffness: Force > SL > MC. Which is how all our shops have marketed them - and incidentally entirely consistent with my personal experience.
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post #68 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-04-2013, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by hktrdr View Post
Wrong. As I have stated before, Union prefers not to get into flex ratings for a number of reasons (people misunderstand the whole flex/responsiveness thing, changes between models from year to year, flex of different parts of the bindings, etc.), but the facts are quite clear:
  • SL and MC have fundamentally the same baseplate - Atlas Stage III. However, MC is cored out - hence, not as stiff. Stage II baseplate on the Force is 'beefier' and stiffer than either.
  • SL and MC highbacks are very, very similar - carbon is used in the MC to reduce weight, not to increase stiffness. Force highbacks are quite different, but at least as stiff in most respects.

Therefore, overall stiffness: Force > SL > MC. Which is how all our shops have marketed them - and incidentally entirely consistent with my personal experience.
The machine cored carbon injected MC baseplate is significantly stiffer than the regular Atlas baseplate. I can't tell any difference in stiffness between the Force baseplate and non-carbon injected Atlas baseplate.

For Highbacks the Force is stiffer than the SL's and MC's torsionally. But you can't really compare because the Force flex pattern is symmetric, whereas the SL and MC's stiffness changes based on the pressure applied to particular parts of the highback.
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