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2013 Cartel's! Can't be Centered?!!

13K views 48 replies 22 participants last post by  snowklinger 
#1 ·
I was reading DreamPow's post about his 2013 Cartels and it appears I have a similar issue with mine. I bought & mounted these on my 2010/11 Arbor Roundhouse 163W exactly as I did my Old 2010/11 Cartels. (I have 2010 10.5 32 ST Boa boots)

These New Cartels cannot be centered on my Arbor. When I mount them In the most toe forward position possible, I have about a 1/2 inch of overhang on my toe & as much as an inch- inch & half of heel overhang! The board is unridable like this!!!

Now I demo'd these bindings back in Dec. and I was told the ones I tried were large bindings! (...the Demo'd pair were that ugly blue/teal color, Mine are the asphalt!) I rode those Demo Cartels on a few Burton boards and I liked the bindings so much I asked if I could try them on my Arbor! I loved them on my board!!! They were Super comfortable & I didn't notice any ride or performance problems with them on my Arbor board.

So I don't know why the ones I just purchased are like this! Defective maybe????? I can't use them like this, and I don't believe that going to a Med size will solve the problem like it did for DreamPow! I've had Med bindings on this Wide Arbor before & didn't like the way they rode! (...Too small for a wide board like this!)

Any suggestions? Is this something that others are experiencing? Should I contact Burton or just return them to REI & try another pair?

Appreciate your time & help!
 
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#2 ·
I think this is common with unibody bindings. Probably why they created the EST system. The reason I got rid of my Cartels was because I couldn't center the boots without the discs turned sideways, which obviously limits stance options to what ever the inserts fall at. I had the same problem with my Flux.

Now it appears that the smaller re:flex disc limits the adjustment range even more so.

I'm not sure why they don't spend more time on their disc design. Even ride includes multiple offset discs to rectify this issue.
 
#9 ·
Binding Pic's / Uncentered



Here's the disk set up. In Most toe forward position!
Footwear Technology Automotive wheel system Auto part Electronic device


Personal protective equipment Footwear Snowboard



Here's all the heel overhang that position gives me:
Auto part


Beverage can Tin can Aluminum can Drink Carmine


Almost no toe overhang:
Snowboard Room Sports equipment Metal


Footwear Shoe Skate shoe Athletic shoe Sneakers


sorry about upside down pics,.. I edited them but iPhone apparently embeds the orientation regardless!!!
 

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#10 · (Edited)
Now that CAN'T be right can it? My 2010/11 Cartels are a tiny bit heel heavy when centerd using the same (relative) bolt holes. This is an unridable situation for this board! It's already a bit hard to initiate toeside turns with it being a wide board as is. But with NO toe side Leverage??? this sucks, and I don't know why the Cartel's I demo'd didn't feel this bad on this board!!

I noticed how different, bad/squirelly this setup felt the very first time I rode it, but I thought I just had to dial in my hi-backs & angles! This set up isn't ridable as it is!
 
#19 ·
Your toe ramps are a touch too far out. You want them to follow the curve of the boot, so your toes will actually stick out further than the ramp.

You know, I really think you're overthinking it. The board is not unrideable! Difficulty in initiating toeside turns is from bad technique. Don't blame the equipment. I've had my bindings like that before on some boards and never noticed it.
 
#11 ·
God it almost does look like those bindings are too big for your boot, but I would imagine you're right in that a medium wouldn't work on a wide board. Are you sure the ones you demo'd were larges?
 
#12 · (Edited)
I was told they were, we had to adjust the straps several times to keep them from bottoming out when tightening, so yeah! Pretty sure! And I didn't notice ANY ride performance issues! Board didn't feel squirrelly or radically different when riding.

I Just noticed that the bindings were way more comfortable than my old Cartels and actually, my boots didn't lift/rise up & ride the outside edge of the bindings base whenever I tried to Butter! (...my old Cartels let my boot lift in the bindings and bottom of boot was on outside edge of base no matter how tight I strapped in!) With the New Cartel's, My boots fit better in the bindings, but the bindings apparently don't fit my board??? Cannot center them to even out overhang!

Does any of that make sense?? :dunno:

Later edit:
Now,.. I have NO idea what disk plates were used for the bindings I demo'd on my Arbor! The Cartels I rode on the Burton boards I demo'd were the EST (...or channel?) Not sure what was used for mounting them on my Arbor!
Oh yes, Btw my Old 2010/11 Cartel's are Large!!! They work just fine with this board & boots! (..just not as comfortable!)
 
#13 ·
What's weird is that in looking at those pics I'm not sure different discs would even help your situation much. That is to say those heelside edge screws don't look like they could come back any further with any kind of disc because you'd be getting too close to the seam where the disc meets the base plate. It's odd. Hopefully Burton Bindings will see this thread and chime in.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Cuz after my second day on a rental snowboard, I ran out & bought my own gear,.. AND I took the advice of the REI salespeople! :RantExplode: (...to be fair to them, I started out with {and ultimately returned 2-3 pair,..} of size 11's or even 11.5 boots cuz my feet are "freakin' Wide"!) 10.5 EEE streets & work boots!

I have since learned I don't NEED, never did need a Wide board! But,.. it's mine now. It's a GREAT board & I actually learned to ride pretty damn well on it! ;)

Just can't figure out why the bindings I demo'd didn't give me the trouble (...ride performance problems) that the ones I purchased have!!! :dunno: :icon_scratch:
 
#17 ·
I only know that the Demo Cartels were 2012/13's. Do they make these in a Non Reflex binding? Is there a version of these 12/13 Cartels without the reflex bindings?

Honestly,.. I don't remember the disk's on the Demo's having these same large teeth on the disk & binding plate for locking in the angles! But my recollection is unreliable on that as I wasn't really paying attention to those kinds of things!
 
#21 ·
Maybe I'm missing something here, but from the looks of the pictures, you need to suck in your heel cups and re-position the bindings to fit centered. Again, I could be way off base, but from the pics, that's what it looks like to me.
 
#25 ·
Bindings are way too big. I understand they changed things for 2013, but on the 2012s I fit a 7.5 boot into a medium binding (their chart says too small but it fit well) and got it centered.

Bindings too big. Board too wide. You mentioned REI? Return that shit. With the binding that big you're never going to get it centered. For christs sake your boot doesn't even reach the end of the toe ramp.

Get a normal width board, a medium binding and then see how it centers.

With the binding so large, and the inability to move the heel cup forward, you have a boot that starts way too far back to get centered. I don't even think the old style cartels would work on centering that boot.
 
#27 ·
Does the high back move in on the heel cup? I'm pretty sure that my old cartels had a way to shorten the heel length. You would think the newer versions would have even better adjustability, not worse. But I could just be remembering them wrong as well, and I don't have them around anymore to look. :dunno:

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App
 
#28 ·
Contact Burton or the shop where you bought them, you will need mediums just like me. If you can get them to send you some medium bindings see if you can hang onto the large toe caps.

The medium binding will automatically have your binding more centered because the base plate is significantly shorter.

Your boots will fit snugly but well. I am really enjoying my mediums but I have the large toe caps on there as the medium toe caps didn't work (hurt my toes).

As I said in my thread lots of people are having this issue and I think Burton should stress the need to try on bindings for people in the middle of the two sizes. They can put a note on their size charts and tell their reps and shops so people have a heads up.

It seems to be mostly people who already own Burton bindings who are getting caught out because if your old burton bindings fit with the same boots/ board who would think the new ones wouldn't.

Its the reflex feature that forced them to reduce the adjustability. It is a good feature though and I noticed more pop.
 
#30 ·
Contact Burton or the shop where you bought them, you will need mediums just like me. If you can get them to send you some medium bindings see if you can hang onto the large toe caps.
Chomps, let me know if you go this route but for some reason can't keep the large capstrap. I have a brand new set of the gettagrip capstraps that I may be willing to part with. I have them only as a backup so I don't necessarily need them. Plus we wouldn't have to fuck with shipping since I'm in Lansing. Just a thought in the event that you can't keep yours.
 
#41 ·
This is simple. Your board is too wide and your bindings are too big.

A 26.8 waist needs at the very least a 12. You're a size and a half too small for that board in reality. And you have almost no toe overhang in that binding. Mediums are a better fit.
Thank you. That is is the basic problem and no messing around with the bindings is going to address this fundamental issue.
 
#31 · (Edited)
My Old 2010/11 Large Cartel's

Here's how my Old Cartels center up. Same board, same boots!
(...again, I apologize for the orientation! I've tried & failed to fix it!) :dunno:

Footwear Shoe Ski boot Snowboard Athletic shoe



Here's the Toe;

Footwear Shoe Personal protective equipment Sports equipment Athletic shoe




...and the Heel!

Bicycle part Bicycle Vehicle Mountain bike Bicycle saddle


Definitely "Less" adjustability in the New 12/13 Cartels!!! I'll return them to REI & see if a Mediium size will center better!
Although, as I mentioned earlier,.. I don't think I'll like the way it rides with Med. bindings! I think they will be too small for the wide board!
Shit!! I really wanted those bindings on my Arbor! They're more comfortable than my Old Cartels, and I liked the way the new straps Held my boot in the bindings! No more slipping or riding up the edge of the binding whenever I Butter!!

(...anybody want to buy a slightly used Arbor Roundhouse 163W?) ;)
 
#32 ·
Binding size, assuming same bunding and they fit your boots and can center on the board, won't affect ride. What mattersmis where your toe and heel end up relative to the edges of the board. Lean energy is transferred to the board regardless of the binding size.

Good luck!
 
#35 ·
Yeah, it does. I have maybe 1/4 - 1/2 inch more heel over than toe! This hasn't been too big an issue! Although, until I got good at riding the thing,.. :dunno: Probably explains why when I was learning, my "Go Too" side was always my Heelside!! Going toe side seemed a little sketchy early in my riding! (I've since adapted!) :)

I ordered the Med. Cartels from REI. (...in store's sold out!) Unfortunately, they will not get here before I leave for Boyne Highlands next week. I even if they do fix the centering issue, I still want to spend some time riding them to make sure a Med. binding like that is going to work on my wide board! I'm still worried that there won't be enough leverage for my turns to feel dialed in! I can ride that board pretty well with my Old Cartels! We're running out of ride time here in MI for me to make sure they'll work!!

(BTW,.. I tried putting them on my NS Proto, and they wouldn't center the boot on that reg width board either!)

I have a PM in to Burton Bindings to aks about those large straps for the Med. bindings. Haven't heard back yet! Thanks for the replies guys!
 
#36 ·
dude, everyone favours their heelside when learning. It's a natural reaction, it's not because of binding overhang.

If you want large straps for your bindings, call rider services instead of trying to go directly to the B bindings product manager. It will be faster.
 
#38 · (Edited)
dude, everyone favours their heelside when learning. It's a natural reaction, it's not because of binding overhang.
That isn't necessarily true. I've favored my toe-side since day one when riding regular. It baffled my instructor to no end. On the other hand, I highly favor my heelside when riding switch, so there you go.

To Chomps' issue I've seen similar problems with some of the mini-disc bindings like the older Nitros.
 
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