Thoughts on a big board, and help understanding the dynamics... - Page 2 - Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums
SnowboardingForum.com is the premier Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-06-2009, 06:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Aurora, CO
Posts: 43
Default

I called and talked to Venture, and it sounds like either the Zephyr or the Storm would be a great board...I'm leaning a little towards the Zephyr since it's a little more on the all-mountain side than the Storm. She described the difference as the Storm having a slightly further back stance and a softer nose for better powder riding...the Zephyr is still directional, just not as dramatic. She mentioned that the longer the board, the stiffer it would be, but that it sounds like a Zephyr 171 would suit me very well.

I also asked her obviously biased opinion on the Ride Yukon and Never Summer in general, and she did say that if I didn't go with Venture, Never Summer makes great durable boards- the only criticism she had was that she'd heard their boards can be very dampened and feel kind of 'dead'...could someone please explain that to me? Venture touts very lively and 'poppy' boards at the opposite extreme. I guess I really don't understand what that means from a day-to-day riding perspective.

Thanks!
Edvard_Grieg is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-06-2009, 06:55 PM   #12 (permalink)
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
legallyillegal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: fuck Snowboarding
Posts: 4,477
Default

She means that NeverSummer boards have good vibration dampening.
__________________
THERE ARE SPECIFIC REASONS AS TO WHY I AM MORE LOCAL THAN YOU

GOD IS DONUT
legallyillegal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 07:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 553
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenzo View Post
Also consider Never Summer Titan TX and Legacy-R. My SL-R is a freakin' tank, can imagine the stiffer models are even better for heavier riders.
I second the idea of the Titan TX or the Legacy-R. Both have a 26.9 waist width on the longer models and they are pretty stiff.

You could also try the Lib Tech Dark Series Wide 164 which has a waist width of 26.5 and a flex rating of 7.5 (10 being stiffest).

Also - check out the Bataleon Undisputed 167. Flex = 7. Waist width = 26.
Gnarly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2009, 12:13 AM   #14 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Aurora, CO
Posts: 43
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnarly View Post
I second the idea of the Titan TX or the Legacy-R. Both have a 26.9 waist width on the longer models and they are pretty stiff.

You could also try the Lib Tech Dark Series Wide 164 which has a waist width of 26.5 and a flex rating of 7.5 (10 being stiffest).

Also - check out the Bataleon Undisputed 167. Flex = 7. Waist width = 26.
Cool- comparatively the Venture has a waist of 28- and a stiffness of 7...wouldn't that be better?
Edvard_Grieg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2009, 09:13 PM   #15 (permalink)
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
MunkySpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Berkshires
Posts: 3,212
Default

Finally, a post I can help out with.

I've got a Venture Zephyr Wide 166, a Titan TX 161, and a few beat up Burton Canyons I hang on the wall b/c of the graphics. I'm 6'3", 200lbs, size 14 feet. Is this getting close enough minus the weight?

If you're looking for speed and control at said speeds, pure and simple, the Titan TX is what you want. It's got no chatter to speak of and it's faster than Reggie Bush on crack. I've got a long, very shallow incline at my home resort right off the high speed lift before you reach any real gradients. You can tell who waxes their boards and who doesn't, as 90% of the people have to stop and skate to go further, but on the Titan I woosh by them every time without fail. It's stiff, but at your professed 290 pounds, just about any board has a high degree of flex. It's got much more flex than the Zephyr, and is a bit thinner. It's a Neversummer, so you know it's built like a brick shithouse. It's my everyday board that I throw at anything but fluffy white powder or rocks (I bounce my Canyons off the rocky stuff).

I save the Zephyr for the nice powder days. It's also fast, not as fast as the Titan, but I don't have any complaints. It's WIDE, the 28cm means I don't have to worry about using lifts/risers. It's also stiffer than Michael Jackson watching the tabernacle boys choir - really stiff. Carving is a dream in this, it's easy, fast, and smooth... like a pint of Ben and Jerry's or a good poop. It's relatively light (given that it's a wide 166 board), but I figure it'd be heavier than the Titan if they were the same size. Speaking of brick shithouses, what strikes me about the board is that it's tough as nails. Minus the edge, it's wrapped top to bottom in p-tex, including a nice textured p-tex topsheet that negates the need for a stomp pad. I'm pretty sure it could stop an armor piercing round (or not...). You can whup up on it like a red-headed step child and it will come back for more. It handles much easier than its size or weight would lead you to believe, although keep in mind it is still a big board... and the carving.. mmm.. carving. It'll keep an edge on really crappy snow better than anything I've ever ridden.

That being said, don't discount NS's construction quality as well.

My rear leg is at 0 degrees and so I need every bit of width I can get out of a board. I use lifts with the Titan, but I don't need them with the Zephyr. I don't think you could possibly go wrong with either one.

Last edited by MunkySpunk; 01-07-2009 at 09:38 PM.
MunkySpunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 12:35 AM   #16 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Aurora, CO
Posts: 43
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MunkySpunk View Post
Finally, a post I can help out with.

I've got a Venture Zephyr Wide 166, a Titan TX 161, and a few beat up Burton Canyons I hang on the wall b/c of the graphics. I'm 6'3", 200lbs, size 14 feet. Is this getting close enough minus the weight?

If you're looking for speed and control at said speeds, pure and simple, the Titan TX is what you want. It's got no chatter to speak of and it's faster than Reggie Bush on crack. I've got a long, very shallow incline at my home resort right off the high speed lift before you reach any real gradients. You can tell who waxes their boards and who doesn't, as 90% of the people have to stop and skate to go further, but on the Titan I woosh by them every time without fail. It's stiff, but at your professed 290 pounds, just about any board has a high degree of flex. It's got much more flex than the Zephyr, and is a bit thinner. It's a Neversummer, so you know it's built like a brick shithouse. It's my everyday board that I throw at anything but fluffy white powder or rocks (I bounce my Canyons off the rocky stuff).

I save the Zephyr for the nice powder days. It's also fast, not as fast as the Titan, but I don't have any complaints. It's WIDE, the 28cm means I don't have to worry about using lifts/risers. It's also stiffer than Michael Jackson watching the tabernacle boys choir - really stiff. Carving is a dream in this, it's easy, fast, and smooth... like a pint of Ben and Jerry's or a good poop. It's relatively light (given that it's a wide 166 board), but I figure it'd be heavier than the Titan if they were the same size. Speaking of brick shithouses, what strikes me about the board is that it's tough as nails. Minus the edge, it's wrapped top to bottom in p-tex, including a nice textured p-tex topsheet that negates the need for a stomp pad. I'm pretty sure it could stop an armor piercing round (or not...). You can whup up on it like a red-headed step child and it will come back for more. It handles much easier than its size or weight would lead you to believe, although keep in mind it is still a big board... and the carving.. mmm.. carving. It'll keep an edge on really crappy snow better than anything I've ever ridden.

That being said, don't discount NS's construction quality as well.

My rear leg is at 0 degrees and so I need every bit of width I can get out of a board. I use lifts with the Titan, but I don't need them with the Zephyr. I don't think you could possibly go wrong with either one.
Awesome! Thank you very much for the reply! Would you say that one holds an edge better than the other? How about in moguls? (just starting to do some, and I know it will be tricky with either)

Is the speed difference significant or marginal? I'm thinking since I'll probably be looking at a 171 ish I'll be getting nice speed one way or the other...not to mention mass does lend itself towards ridiculous speed in its own right Do you think I could ride something shorter? Aside from being easier to turn- what other changes would I notice between a 166 and a 171?

loved the analogies btw

Last edited by Edvard_Grieg; 01-08-2009 at 12:39 AM.
Edvard_Grieg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 11:04 AM   #17 (permalink)
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
MunkySpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Berkshires
Posts: 3,212
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edvard_Grieg View Post
Awesome! Thank you very much for the reply! Would you say that one holds an edge better than the other? How about in moguls? (just starting to do some, and I know it will be tricky with either)

Is the speed difference significant or marginal? I'm thinking since I'll probably be looking at a 171 ish I'll be getting nice speed one way or the other...not to mention mass does lend itself towards ridiculous speed in its own right Do you think I could ride something shorter? Aside from being easier to turn- what other changes would I notice between a 166 and a 171?

loved the analogies btw
The Zephyr definitely holds an edge better than my Titan, no question. There is a caveat to that assessment however: My Zephyr is longer and therefore has a longer effective edge, and will by definition, hold better than a shorter board of the same construction.

The only way to really test out edge holding in a controlled manner would be to have the same person ride one of each of the same length with the same boots/bindings on the same hill... I'm not in a position to do that. However, if I were to make a judgement call, I'd say the Zephyr held the better edge in any conditions. If you want to go a particular direction, as long as you've got the leg strength to turn the board and the momentum to go the distance, the Zephyr will hold the edge to get you where you want to go, period.

As for moguls, it depends on what you mean by moguls and how you're hitting them. Do you mean the large bumps that the skiers build up on a slope over the course of a day (and then curse you for heelsiding them flat), or do you mean proper resort-constructed moguls? Do you want to just kill the mogul or have some fun on it?

The speed difference seems marginal, although I've never actually clocked myself or had anyone watch me, so it's all based on perception. I'm constantly amazed at how the Titan just builds up speed when you so much as sneeze with your face turned uphill. The Titan just wants to go fast, really fast. I don't get that feeling with the Zephyr, but the Zephyr has more mass, so it could all boil down to inertia: If you have two boards of equal performance but different mass, the heavier one will take longer to get up to speed even though they would both have very close terminal velocities (Newton's 1st law of motion).

The biggest performance change you'd notice between a 166 and a 171, aside from the agility, is that the 171 would hold an edge better during a carve b/c it's got a longer effective edge. I'm not sure that the added mass of a 171 would be enough to make a difference when smashing moguls, but I've never been there. I personally prefer a board that's a bit shorter (if you go by strict height:length proportion rules, 168 would be my board length) for the added agility, even though I don't hit the park. If you're 290 and hitting the black diamonds, it doesn't sound like leg strength is even remotely an issue for you, so you might be able to just bully a longer board into doing what you want. It's a trade-off, shorter is easier to turn and more responsive, but the longer will let you lay down some truly epic S carves. I've never had trouble carving on my Zephyr 166 in all but the shittiest conditions, but I'm also 90 pounds less.

As for needing a longer board just b/c of the weight: We're talking NS and Venture here, they'll both take your punishment in stride. You could ride a NS 128cm kid's board and it'll smile back up at you. It's the float-factor you'll need to consider - a shorter board will put a larger amount of lbs/inch^2 on the snow and you'll tend to sink just a little bit further down. Is the difference enough to warrant a longer board? I dunno, if you board in hip-deep pow all the time, it becomes important to keep that nose up. If you board on East Coast ice, then you really won't sink anyway.

I hope I've helped. Feed me more info on your mogul intentions and I'll see if I can help more.
MunkySpunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 05:16 PM   #18 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Aurora, CO
Posts: 43
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MunkySpunk View Post
The Zephyr definitely holds an edge better than my Titan, no question. There is a caveat to that assessment however: My Zephyr is longer and therefore has a longer effective edge, and will by definition, hold better than a shorter board of the same construction.

The only way to really test out edge holding in a controlled manner would be to have the same person ride one of each of the same length with the same boots/bindings on the same hill... I'm not in a position to do that. However, if I were to make a judgement call, I'd say the Zephyr held the better edge in any conditions. If you want to go a particular direction, as long as you've got the leg strength to turn the board and the momentum to go the distance, the Zephyr will hold the edge to get you where you want to go, period.
Cool Deal

Quote:
As for moguls, it depends on what you mean by moguls and how you're hitting them. Do you mean the large bumps that the skiers build up on a slope over the course of a day (and then curse you for heelsiding them flat), or do you mean proper resort-constructed moguls? Do you want to just kill the mogul or have some fun on it?
I generally don't seek out the deliberate mogul fields, but a fair number of the blacks (and some blue/blue-blacks) get large mogul buildups...not necessarily something that flattens by riding heelside either (either covering a boulder or otherwise). I wouldn't mind trying to get better on the tigher/smaller moguls, but I'm doubtful that would be primary....I'm thinking more the massive moguls carved from pow-pow.

Quote:
The speed difference seems marginal, although I've never actually clocked myself or had anyone watch me, so it's all based on perception. I'm constantly amazed at how the Titan just builds up speed when you so much as sneeze with your face turned uphill. The Titan just wants to go fast, really fast. I don't get that feeling with the Zephyr, but the Zephyr has more mass, so it could all boil down to inertia: If you have two boards of equal performance but different mass, the heavier one will take longer to get up to speed even though they would both have very close terminal velocities (Newton's 1st law of motion).
That made sense- when you say the Zephyr has more mass, are you strictly speaking because it is longer, or is it actually a thicker/denser board?

Quote:
The biggest performance change you'd notice between a 166 and a 171, aside from the agility, is that the 171 would hold an edge better during a carve b/c it's got a longer effective edge. I'm not sure that the added mass of a 171 would be enough to make a difference when smashing moguls, but I've never been there. I personally prefer a board that's a bit shorter (if you go by strict height:length proportion rules, 168 would be my board length) for the added agility, even though I don't hit the park. If you're 290 and hitting the black diamonds, it doesn't sound like leg strength is even remotely an issue for you, so you might be able to just bully a longer board into doing what you want. It's a trade-off, shorter is easier to turn and more responsive, but the longer will let you lay down some truly epic S carves. I've never had trouble carving on my Zephyr 166 in all but the shittiest conditions, but I'm also 90 pounds less.
Yeah, leg strength isn't a huge issue- keep in mind I've been riding a 175 I'm just trying to determine if that was overkill. Prior to it I always rode 168/169...and I guess in my mind 2cm shouldn't mean anything <shrug>...but maybe it does? I don't think I feel comfortable going quite to a 166 though...just seems too short lol.

Quote:
As for needing a longer board just b/c of the weight: We're talking NS and Venture here, they'll both take your punishment in stride. You could ride a NS 128cm kid's board and it'll smile back up at you. It's the float-factor you'll need to consider - a shorter board will put a larger amount of lbs/inch^2 on the snow and you'll tend to sink just a little bit further down. Is the difference enough to warrant a longer board? I dunno, if you board in hip-deep pow all the time, it becomes important to keep that nose up. If you board on East Coast ice, then you really won't sink anyway.

I hope I've helped. Feed me more info on your mogul intentions and I'll see if I can help more.
I ride Summit County, CO, so it's good snow, and either packed pow or powder most of the time. I don't go 'hip deep' often, but then again, like you...my hips are pretty high up

Do you know anything about the edge cuts? The Zephyr uses a quadratic cut, whereas I don't believe the Titan does....do you think that could be contributing to the edge-holding differences too, or do you think it's just length?

Thanks again!
Edvard_Grieg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 05:52 PM   #19 (permalink)
lost in the ugly trees
 
Mysticfalcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Jay Peak
Posts: 2,353
Default

My sugestion would be for a smokin magnetraction 175. Ive got a friend who rides one thats 6'8 and about 240lb. I'm 5'10 and Ride the Smokin traction 162. Amazing ride adn very stiff. It is the ultimate board for high speed blue and black runs. Ive got other boards but that is what I ride the most.
Mysticfalcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 07:45 PM   #20 (permalink)
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
MunkySpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Berkshires
Posts: 3,212
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edvard_Grieg View Post
That made sense- when you say the Zephyr has more mass, are you strictly speaking because it is longer, or is it actually a thicker/denser board?
Both. By dead reckoning, if one were to scale the Titan up to the size of the Zephyr 166 Wide, it'd still weigh less than the Zephyr. You can't quote me on that, I've got nothing to back this up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edvard_Grieg View Post
Do you know anything about the edge cuts? The Zephyr uses a quadratic cut, whereas I don't believe the Titan does....do you think that could be contributing to the edge-holding differences too, or do you think it's just length?
I'm not gonna bullshit you, that's more than I'm qualified to answer. Every single board mfg out there will tell you their sidecuts make it a better board using lingo and jargon that makes your head spin. I DO know what they mean by quadratic vs. tri-radial in a purely mathematical sense. But other than the basics of swallow-tail, tapered, progressive, or twin, I don't know why they do what they do at the end of the day.
Anyone else wanna school me out there?
MunkySpunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:53 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums