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Old 04-04-2009, 11:39 PM   #1 (permalink)
snowboardin2137
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Default Snowboard dampening?

does how "damp" a snowboard is affect how it will ride in choppy powder? because when i ride in choppy powder my knees start really hurtining, will getting a damp board help with this?
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Old 04-05-2009, 09:01 AM   #2 (permalink)
keabler
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snowboard damping refers to high speed vibrations not huge its like in tracked pow. A stiffer board will help smooth out choppy pow.
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Old 04-05-2009, 03:52 PM   #3 (permalink)
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It's going to help absorb micro vibrations which go right to your feet and on upward into your knees. Sounds more like you're locking your knees up instead of bending with the force of the pow.
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Old 04-05-2009, 05:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
keabler
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Originally Posted by BurtonAvenger View Post
It's going to help absorb micro vibrations which go right to your feet and on upward into your knees. Sounds more like you're locking your knees up instead of bending with the force of the pow.
I doubt hes "locking his knees" when hes riding through choppy pow because that would make it impossible to balance I think he just wants to make riding through choppy pow less tiring.

think of you riding at high speeds as a damped driven harmonic oscillator (can be solved by ordinary differential equations) this means that there is a force driving the oscillatory motion (vibrations) a damping constant (something resisting the driving force) and then theres the normal frequency associated with the system (the frequency that if you were to drive at the amplitude of the wave would just keep adding (think of spinning a jump rope the only way you can keep it going is by swinging your arm at the normal frequency of the jump rope system)) every system of a board / rider will have a damping term because there is something there resisting the driver, all a dampening system does is increase the damping coefficient. It turns out that the natural frequency of the system is dynamic (which means it changes with how you ride (basically because you and the board are not perfectly rigid you dont have a single normal frequency so will never experience vibrations building on your natural frequency)), but what increasing the damping constant does is just take more energy away from each oscillation which leaves you with a smoother ride. So a board with a damping system (larger damping coefficient) will damp more energy out of you riding through choppy pow but since the force's acting on you when you do charge through some tracked down pow are so large the difference between a board with a damping system and without will be unnoticeable.

to make riding though choppy pow less tiring you want a deck that is going transfer more of your momentum over the lump of pow rather than down into it. if you have a flexy board a larger component of your momentum will be directed downward for a longer period of time because your board will bend before it starts to "float" over the lump of pow. The longer your momentum tis directed not over the lump of powder the more momentum you lose which means more stress is put on your body (because of conservation of energy the energy from you not floating of the lump of pow will have to go some where and it turns out that it gets transferred into you via you obsorbing the impact). This all translates to you need a stiffer deck that will flex less when you come uppon some choppy pow.

Last edited by keabler; 04-05-2009 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 04-05-2009, 06:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
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thank you guys, big help!
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Old 04-05-2009, 06:41 PM   #6 (permalink)
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haha horay for physics
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Old 04-05-2009, 08:07 PM   #7 (permalink)
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As great as it sounds using physics and big terms to explain something it all comes down to the body. If you're charging pow on a stiffer board, especially choppy pow whether it's heavy mashed potato style or even pushed around light stuff you get the whump factor. The nose hits it and bounces off it still sending vibrations upward into your body.

You need to use the knee flexation to absorb it. Think of it like riding moguls you don't go into it charging and expect the board to just hit the mogul and ping off it, you have to bend the knees and pump the bump keeping it going. Doesn't matter how stiff of a board you have with all the dampening agents in the world it's more knee motion than anything that's going to get you through choppy snow.

If you really want a board that's going to get you through it get something with either Pow Rocker or that is more powder specific with reverse camber. You're no longer fighting the loading and unloading of the camber and with the nose being elevated more it will help you to roll over the top of it.
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Old 04-05-2009, 09:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurtonAvenger View Post
As great as it sounds using physics and big terms to explain something it all comes down to the body. If you're charging pow on a stiffer board, especially choppy pow whether it's heavy mashed potato style or even pushed around light stuff you get the whump factor. The nose hits it and bounces off it still sending vibrations upward into your body.

You need to use the knee flexation to absorb it. Think of it like riding moguls you don't go into it charging and expect the board to just hit the mogul and ping off it, you have to bend the knees and pump the bump keeping it going. Doesn't matter how stiff of a board you have with all the dampening agents in the world it's more knee motion than anything that's going to get you through choppy snow.

If you really want a board that's going to get you through it get something with either Pow Rocker or that is more powder specific with reverse camber. You're no longer fighting the loading and unloading of the camber and with the nose being elevated more it will help you to roll over the top of it.
Actually physics has the ability to describe any system in motion (which means you could technically derive chemistry if quantum mechanics was complete (it would just suck a lot (you would have to use Feynmann diagrams which get complicated very fast)). What I explained earlier is what happens to the board and why riding a softer board will make riding through choppy pow more tiring. When you ride something like choppy pow you obviously have to absorb the impact from the chop, and you also have to at least somewhat plan you line for an area of less chop.

Your knees are the best damping system there is, they have the ability to actively adapt to conditions and absorb crazy amounts of energy. I was assuming that who ever is riding has the common sense to understand that you have to use your body to absorb the larger impacts.

What I was trying to explain earlier is what I thought the question was asking, which is more or less how can I make riding choppy pow less tiring.

If you are riding moguls a stiffer deck will help too, because (same argument as before) when you land the divot of a mougle your energy will be transfered form going into the divot to the path of lest resistance (aka hopefully where you want to be going) quicker which means there is less time for the kinetic energy (energy of motion) to be transfered into you in the form of you absorbing the impact with your body, which intern translates to you having to absorb less energy which means you don't get as tired.



Also I asked google and flexation isn't a word.
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Old 04-05-2009, 10:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Flexation isn't a recognized word doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's a boot fitting term and riding term. You hear it a lot up here.

Also stiffer decks in moguls not going to do it, you want something shorter and more flexible to bend with it. If you've ever dropped a cornice into a mogul field you'll understand this added benefit.
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Old 04-05-2009, 10:54 PM   #10 (permalink)
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ok so obviously there is a limit to how stiff you want a deck to ride something like moguls, and a shorter deck will ride them better because you can more easily power it to where yo u need it to be. but from personal experience my arbor draft rides moguls better than my k2 www (they are the same length) because its stiffer.

Also for a word to technically be an english word it has to be in the oxford english dictionary, so flexation isnt an "official" word.
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