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Old 02-16-2010, 08:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
Bmansthebomb
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Default Too much toe overhang?

Hey I probly have about 2 inches of toe off my board. Will this be too much?
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Hey I probly have about 2 inches of toe off my board. Will this be too much?
Two inches of overhang is too much, but it is probably a warning sign that your bindings are not properly ceneterred (or sized). Do you have two inches of heel overhang as well?

I have posted this here before, but you may still find it useful:

The Boarder's Blog - Snowboard Width - Huh?

How wide of a snowboard do I need? Where is the width of a snowboard measured? What does width mean in terms of my boot size?

Letís start by talking about measurements, because this is where a lot of the confusion arises. The most common width measurement that is provided by manufacturers is "waist". The waist is measured at the narrowest point near the middle of the board (usually). But like with all things in snowboarding, different brands measure different things. Some measure the midpoint between the tip and tail and call that "waist". Others simply provide a measurement they call, "width", but do not really specify what width they are referring to.

If that has you a bit confused, don't worry, because regardless of where these "waist" measurements are taken, they are not very useful for what they are typically used for. Most people think that this measurement is a good indicator of what foot size a board will handle. It is not, and for a simple reason: you do not stand at the waist, you stand at the inserts. A board's waist measurement is always less than the measurement at the inserts and often the difference is significant. Additionally, two boards with the same waist dimension, may have very different measurements at the inserts, depending on each board's sidecut. Measurement at the center insert is a much better way to compare boards for shoe size compatibility, but for some odd reason, manufacturers do not publish this info.

OK, so now we have told you why we think the commonly provided measurements are pretty silly, but what good does that do you? You still need to know how to figure out the correct width for your new board. Well, here comes. There are two easy steps to getting it right every time.

First, measure your bare foot. It is important that you do not try to use a boot size. It is also important that you measure in centimeters, because the board measurements that you will be comparing to will be in cm. Here is the method that we suggest:

Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters).

Second, measure the board you are considering. This measurement is easy. It should be taken at the inserts. Try to measure at the inserts that you will be using to achieve your stance position. If you are unsure about this, simply measure at the center of the insert cluster (that will still be very close). Be sure to measure using the base of the board, not the deck. This is important because the sidewalls on many boards are angled in, and will therefore give you a smaller measurement on the deck than on the base. For our example's sake, let's say the measurement is 27.54 at the center insert.

Still with us? You are almost done. You now have a way to compare foot size to board width where it matters, but how do you interpret this info to get the correct width? Well that depends a little on stance angle. If you ride a 0 degree stance, you will want your foot size to be the same as the width of the board at the inserts or up to 1 cm greater. If you ride at an angled stance, you will want to measure the board across at the angles that you will be riding. Again, you will want your foot to at least match this measurement or exceed it by up to 1 cm. So using our example above, this guy has a foot 28.57 cm that exceeds the board with at the inserts 27.54 cm by 1.03 cm at a zero degree angle. But, when he angles his feet to the 15 degree angles that he rides, voila, he has .10 cm of overhang for a perfect fit.

But wait a second. Are we saying that you should have overhang, even with bare feet? Yes. You will need overhang to be able to apply leverage to your edges and to get the most out of your board. 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch of boot overhang for both toe and heel is ideal, and will not create problematic toe or heel drag. Remember that boots typically add 1/2 at both the toe and heel to your foot measurement from above, due to padding, insulation and the outer boot materials. We do not suggest using the boot length to size boards though, as the extra padding etc, cannot be used well to create leverage, that has to come from your foot itself. We highly recommend that riders do not choose boards where their feet do not come to or exceed the real board width.

OK, that's all well and good, but where can you get the information on board width at the inserts if the manufacturers don't provide it? That's easy. Email the store that carries the board(s) that you are considering. Give them your foot length in cm (and your stance width and angles if you know them). They will be able to provide you with the width at the inserts that you will be using and can factor in your stance angle as well to get you the exact overhang that you will have with bare feet.

PS:

Once mounted, the best way to test is to put your (tightly laced) boots into your bindings and strap them in tightly. It is important that you have the heel pulled all the way back into the bindings heel cup or the test wonít help. On a carpeted floor place your board flat on its base. Kneel behind the heelside edge and lift that edge so that it rests on your knees and so that the toeside edge is angled down into the carpet. Now press down with both hands using firm pressure, one hand on each of the boots. This will compress the board's sidecut and simulate a turn on hard snow. You can change the angle of the board on your knees to become progressively steeper and you will be able to see at what angle you will start getting toe drag. You will want to repeat the test for your heelside as well. If you are not getting drag at normal turn and landing angles, then you are good to go.

PPS:

Also a note about boots: Boot design plays a big role in toe drag as does binding ramping and binding base height. Boots that have a solid bevel at the toe/heel drag less. Many freestyle boots push for more surface contact and reduce bevel. This helps with contact, but if you have a lot of overhang with those boots it hurts in terms of toe drag.

Now go ride!
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:29 PM   #3 (permalink)
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well i dont have any overhang on my heelside. And thanks for all the info
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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well i dont have any overhang on my heelside. And thanks for all the info
That is good news because that's an easy fix. Post up some pics of your setup and we will all get you squared away.
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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That is good news because that's an easy fix. Post up some pics of your setup and we will all get you squared away.
Alright. And to clarify the boot doesnt really overhang on the heelside. but the heelcup does
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Alright. And to clarify the boot doesnt really overhang on the heelside. but the heelcup does
Understood. Your goal will be to center your foot so that you have an equal amount of toe and heel overhang. The heelcup itself should not be considered in your measurements. How you will go about doing the centerring will depend a lot on the options that your bindings allow. That is where the pictures will be helpful.

Here are some general tips:

The Boarder's Blog - Snowboard Binding Adjustment - Get Your Tweak On

Anyone ever tell you that your snowboard bindings are as important as your board when it comes to performance? Uhh huh, uhh huh, thought so. Pretty good info actually. Bindings are your link to the board and if they're not working for you, that new Shawn Kass pro model won't make a bit of difference. That said, bindings have come a long way in the last 5 years, and these days even many basic binding models have great adjustability and the potential for a highly customized fit. But are you using the adjustability that is available, and if so, are you using it correctly? Dialing in your bindings with that extra little bit of tweaking can entirely change your riding experience and can unlock a level of comfort and performance that you may have been missing before.

Let's start at the most heelward (is that a word? It is now) adjustment. What is the correct setting for the highback's forward lean slider? This is going to depend both on your boots and your riding style. Without changing the factory setting for lean, place your tightly laced boot into the binding and fully tighten both straps. Now have a look at the profile of the boot and binding. Is the top of the highback in full contact with the back of the boot? Is the angle of the highback forcing the top of the boot forward or crushing the back of the boot inward towards the tongue? If the angle of the boot nicely nests into the angle of the highback, that is a great place to start. If not, you will want to adjust the highback so that it rests with light pressure against the back of the boot. Consider that your starting point before style of riding is even considered. OK, but I'm a freestyler and I like that full motion feel, what do I do? Some freestylers will back off the highback a few degrees from the point of light contact. That may allow a bit more range of motion. We suggest backing this off very gradually (if at all) because heelside edge control can be lost quickly and because some degree of leg and ankle support is always sacrificed. It is also important to remember that the highback itself will flex some (depending on design) and that flex may be more than enough without "boot-negative" angle. Yeah, but what about freeriders and carvers? Starting from the nesting point, gradually adjust forward in small increments. This will allow a more "instant" feeling heelside edge, but can also result in overlean and calf pain, so use it sparingly. Most riders will simply want to adjust to the nesting point and will happily leave this setting right there.

Heelcup adjustment is a little more complicated in that the term is often used to describe two separate and very different settings. The first should really be called highback rotation (and often is) even though this adjustment is made at the heelcup. The idea here is that when an angled stance is chosen, the highback becomes out of parallel with the board's edge. The rotation adjustment allows for the highback to be brought back in sync with the edge. The million dollar question is, should this be done? Does it help to have the back of the boot angled in one direction and the highback in another? There is no simple answer here. Highbacks are not always symmetrical, and boots come in a variety of sizes and shapes. That does not even begin to cover all of the different leg types that will enter the equation. The very best thing to do is to experiment. Strap into your gear on a carpeted floor at the factory settings and feel how the highback meets your contact points. You will get a surprisingly accurate feel for this even with no snow involved. Now rotate the highback to parallel with the edges and retest. We have done this thousands of times for riders, and most have a strong and immediate preference to this test. Many times an "in-between" selection will be made and that is just fine. There are no hard and fast rules to this, so let comfort guide you and don't hesitate to fine tune after a few snow sessions.

The second heelcup adjustment only applies to some bindings. These models have a heelcup which is free from the rest of the base. This allows the heel of the boot to be moved further out over the heelside edge. This is a centering feature which should be used to attain the same amount of overhang for both the toe and heel of the boot. It also allows for different sized boots to match up better with the contours of the bindings (for example where the arch curve lies). If this adjustment is not available on your bindings, no need to worry, centering can be achieved by use of the disk slider and contour can be matched by a more specific binding fit.

The adjustable disk is the source of great confusion as it potentially controls 3 separate realms of adjustment: stance angle, tip to tail position, and toeside to heelside position. We have recently covered stance angle in another post, so let's begin with the other two. It is important to note that most binding disks will allow for either tip to tail adjustment or toeside to heelside adjustment but will not allow for both. Of the two, toeside to heelside adjustment (centering) is far more important than fine tuning stance width (micro adjustments between the available insert positions on the board). If the disk is the only available means of adjusting toe to heel centering, and if your boots do not happen to be perfectly centered without adjustment, then choose to position the disk so that adjustment is allowed toeside to heelside. You will then want to adjust so that you have an equal amount of overhang for both toe and heel (at the stance angles that you have selected). It is important to note that the goal is to center the boots, not the bindings. A centered binding does not mean a centered boot. This is the single most important binding setting and will have a huge impact on your riding, so we would suggest spending the time in adjusting and readjusting to get this perfect.

How about an easy one? Some bindings have adjustable ramps (gas pedals). This is strictly a matter of aligning the ramps so that they fall comfortably under the contours of your particular boots and so that pressure can naturally be applied. This is typically adjusted by a slide screw that is found on the base of the bindings. When you have your boots on and you are strapped in to your bindings the correct position will very intuitive once found. We suggest leaving the set screw loose and sliding the ramps into various positions until the ahh-hah moment occurs. Then tighten them down and you are done.

What about straps? There are so many settings on them and I have no idea what to do. First off, it is important that the straps be adjusted so that they are easily inserted into the ratchets, and so that the contoured pads be aligned well with your boots (and feet). The first is fairly easy. With your boots tightly laced onto your foot, try to strap in. Does the ladder strap easily reach and enter the ratchet or is it a struggle to get even the first few teeth in? When fully tightened are you able to get a nice snug fit or do you hit the far end of the ladder strap and it is still not completely tight on your boots? You will need to adjust the straps to allow for easy access and firm tightening. If these two things cannot be achieved and still allow for a comfortable pad position, then you have the wrong size bindings. Many bindings allow for the pad position to be adjusted independently of the strap size. Others also allow for the straps to be moved forward or backward on the base. It is a common misconception that the pad should always be perfectly centered. That is not the case. Many bindings use asymmetrical pads that are designed to ride more over the inside of the foot. The bottom line on straps is comfort. A small adjustment in position can make a huge difference, so again, tweak and retweak. Your feet will thank you!
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Thanks alot. One more question. I have 2 boards. One is a 156cm Limited board but I feel has less flex and not as good as my K2 145cm board that I just got. Both are freestyle.
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Got it. What question can I help you with?
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