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Old 02-28-2010, 11:41 AM   #1 (permalink)
magronbass
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Default my impression of the differences between an all mountain board and Park/freestyle

I just replaced my old hand-me-down board with a Sierrascope and was amazed at how much of a difference it made. The old board is a mysterious Sims board from like 10 years ago or something. It was actually given to me with K2 clickers, so it's pretty old.. the board itself was very hard and heavy. I suppose it's for all mountain carving and is really not a trick/freestyle thing at all.

I would suppose an all mountain board would be good if going fast and carving hard ice is what you like. I noticed that my old board held an edge better and handled better under high speeds. On the other hand it also catches edges way more and so you get way more scorpions. Probably not so bad or small kickers but again because it catches edge so easily it requires a more controlled landing.

Before I tried the Sierrascope, I didn't really get the concept of a flexy board. I understand that the flex would help with pop... but it turns out it also opens you up to being able to ride on the tail/nose which leads to a bunch of cool things you can do.

The strange thing about the Sierrascope, or probably any other reverse camber boards is that it feels a lot like a skateboard. So if you're a skater I think any rocker board will you back right in the comfort zone. so that's pretty much the biggest difference between a regular camber board versus a reverse camber. Imagine that the bottom of the board is slightly curved upwards and that your contact point is the bottom of U shape. Obviously that's a exaggerated shape but what that does is it raises the edge above the snow a little so that it gives you a little "play". And what that means is you catch edges way less, and are also able to control the board without the edge slowing you down. the downside to this is that it's harder to carve hard ice and it's also harder to maneuver a high speeds. (it feels slippery because) also because of the flex, you use a little bit more leg muscle to exert control onto the board. (because you can't use the stiffness to control it)

The U shape's effect is profound.. it's to the point of being able to go down the hill, with pretty good speed.. but completely facing sideways. Try that with a camber board and you'll flip with the tiniest inconsistency in the snow. Not that you'd want to go down the hill facing sideways, but basically it will allow you to land at imperfect angles and still recover, end up in a strange pose after a trick and still not catch an edge, etc..

all in all, I'm not sure if it's because the Sierrascope or if all reverse camber/rocker boards are the same, but these boards are way fun than stiff all mountain boards. it's funny because this is one of the cases were hardware actually matters in that the construction of the board limits or enables you to do certain things. But anyway these were my thoughts having just switched to a reverse camber board for the first time. I wished someone explained it like this to me earlier, so here it is..

Last edited by magronbass; 02-28-2010 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 02-28-2010, 12:09 PM   #2 (permalink)
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What U shape are you talking about?

And I'm surprised your having issues with a Sierrascope at high speeds unless it's choppy... My Horrorscope is more fun at high speeds then my Black Death unless it's choppy. The lack of dampening in the Horrorscope forces me to put it away when we get tracked out lines. But the Horrorscope is an amazingly fun board for spring riding, groomers, and park.
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Old 02-28-2010, 12:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Capita uses what they call FK technology ( flatkick tech ) the board is flat between the binding area and then has a slight rise 3-5mm from the bindings out. Other companies that use this style of alternate camber are Ride, K2, Rome (on some models) and Smokin. The other two most popular alternate cambers are what Mervin calls the Banana which is basically a "u" shape used by Roxy, Gnu, Lib Tech, and a few Rome boards. The second is what Mervin calls the C2 tech which has banana in the middle but the nose and tail have camber to help for stability. This is used by Rome on a fw models, Never Summer, and Mervin. Pretty much every company uses one of these three. There are a few other styles like Bataleons TBT and OMatics BS tech as well. Lots to digest I know haha ......
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Old 02-28-2010, 12:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Burrito is pretty accurate..

That's why I'm questioning the U shape your speaking of when talking about a Sierrascope. It's a flat board basically
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Old 02-28-2010, 02:38 PM   #5 (permalink)
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the "U" is sort of exaggerated like I said.. I was trying to illustrate (from side view) how the binding portion lifts up, leaving mainly the level base in contact, rather than having the binding area dig in like traditional camber.. But hmm.. this is confusing.. because even though the reverse camber area lift up, I guess capita's FK is classified as flat camber? (after some searching) Strange... with mixed cambers, I guess it's getting too confusing to call certain board a specific camber.. My point is though, all this new stuff makes for a very fun ride.

and ya, you guessed it.. it's high speed+chop that was the tough combination for me. I guess I just hate chop in general..

I mainly posted this just to illustrate how the rocker / rev camber / btx, (and thousands of more new types) boards are totally different from the regular camber or flat cambers.. Many beginners or light users simple don't know I think. So, the post isn't really meant to explain all camber types, etc, esp since I'm no specialist.. but just to show that if you're wondering how to spice up your ride a bit, these types of boards may do the job. for me it was night and day.. now all I can think about off the hill is all the new stuff I can work on.

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Old 02-28-2010, 03:06 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm pretty much in the same boat. I've been riding on and off for 15 years on my same old Burton Air 155 that I got new back in the day. But within the last 3 years I've been really hitting the slopes hard and even got a season pass to a local resort this year. I'm torn between the Sierrascope and the Nitro SubZero, or even buying a new board at all. I wanted to demo one of these boards but there was only 1 demo day at my local mountain and I missed it. So does anyone else have any experience going from an old school all mountain board to a newer park board? I'm just concerned that when I hit any type of speed on a groomer, it's going to wash out.
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Old 02-28-2010, 05:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcblitz View Post
I'm pretty much in the same boat. I've been riding on and off for 15 years on my same old Burton Air 155 that I got new back in the day. But within the last 3 years I've been really hitting the slopes hard and even got a season pass to a local resort this year. I'm torn between the Sierrascope and the Nitro SubZero, or even buying a new board at all. I wanted to demo one of these boards but there was only 1 demo day at my local mountain and I missed it. So does anyone else have any experience going from an old school all mountain board to a newer park board? I'm just concerned that when I hit any type of speed on a groomer, it's going to wash out.
B/w those two boards I would say the scope. The subzero is extremely soft and will pretty much only be good for jibbing. You might wanna check out the team gullwing if you're into Nitro.

What type of riding are you into?
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Old 03-01-2010, 08:23 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm just concerned that when I hit any type of speed on a groomer, it's going to wash out.
well, you're not going to wash out at speed, the difference is much more subtle. As in, it just feels a bit more loose when you turn on an edge.. so i don't think that's something to worry about unless you tweak the edge bevel or something.
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Old 03-01-2010, 12:17 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magronbass View Post
I just replaced my old hand-me-down board with a Sierrascope and was amazed at how much of a difference it made. The old board is a mysterious Sims board from like 10 years ago or something. It was actually given to me with K2 clickers, so it's pretty old.. the board itself was very hard and heavy. I suppose it's for all mountain carving and is really not a trick/freestyle thing at all.

I would suppose an all mountain board would be good if going fast and carving hard ice is what you like. I noticed that my old board held an edge better and handled better under high speeds. On the other hand it also catches edges way more and so you get way more scorpions. Probably not so bad or small kickers but again because it catches edge so easily it requires a more controlled landing.

Before I tried the Sierrascope, I didn't really get the concept of a flexy board. I understand that the flex would help with pop... but it turns out it also opens you up to being able to ride on the tail/nose which leads to a bunch of cool things you can do.

The strange thing about the Sierrascope, or probably any other reverse camber boards is that it feels a lot like a skateboard. So if you're a skater I think any rocker board will you back right in the comfort zone. so that's pretty much the biggest difference between a regular camber board versus a reverse camber. Imagine that the bottom of the board is slightly curved upwards and that your contact point is the bottom of U shape. Obviously that's a exaggerated shape but what that does is it raises the edge above the snow a little so that it gives you a little "play". And what that means is you catch edges way less, and are also able to control the board without the edge slowing you down. the downside to this is that it's harder to carve hard ice and it's also harder to maneuver a high speeds. (it feels slippery because) also because of the flex, you use a little bit more leg muscle to exert control onto the board. (because you can't use the stiffness to control it)

The U shape's effect is profound.. it's to the point of being able to go down the hill, with pretty good speed.. but completely facing sideways. Try that with a camber board and you'll flip with the tiniest inconsistency in the snow. Not that you'd want to go down the hill facing sideways, but basically it will allow you to land at imperfect angles and still recover, end up in a strange pose after a trick and still not catch an edge, etc..

all in all, I'm not sure if it's because the Sierrascope or if all reverse camber/rocker boards are the same, but these boards are way fun than stiff all mountain boards. it's funny because this is one of the cases were hardware actually matters in that the construction of the board limits or enables you to do certain things. But anyway these were my thoughts having just switched to a reverse camber board for the first time. I wished someone explained it like this to me earlier, so here it is..
I think it depends on what you really want out of the board. You can't have everything. I just tried a really flexy park board with reverse camber (Burton Hero) and I felt it's pretty tiring to ride at medium speeds even compared to a stiff camber board. However, your edge catching is pretty correct. The stiff boards tend to throw you if you're not as precise. I also tried a rocker-flat-rocker (looks like this: \_/ ) Burton Fix and it feels somewhere in between the rocker and camber...but more towards camber.

There is Magnetraction that's like a serated edge that will help with carving. Burton has something similar on the Hero where it like comes out a bit by the bindings I think, but I didn't feel it really helped that much. But then again, I had no normal edge Hero to compare it with.
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Old 03-01-2010, 02:13 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Are you saying you prefer a negative camber board or a board less than 10 years old?

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