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Old 01-30-2011, 01:04 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasschopper View Post
On a board that is designed with setback (directional boards) you should center your bindings on the bolt pattern which will be set back the appropriate amount given the design of the board. This amount will vary depending on the designed setback of the board.
Thanks, but I'm riding boards with the Burton Channel system, so no traditional bolt patterns/locations on the board to deal with. I am thinking the channel system is the difference for me with regard to not having any issues with centering my stance...but not totally convinced that's the answer.
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Old 01-30-2011, 01:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
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A new CX shouldn't need a tune right away, a wax after the first day might be a good idea.
I tried setting mine up with a centered stance when I first got it...way to unstable for me. I ended up keeping the 25 back stance.
Something that I noticed about my CX is that your control of fore/aft weighting plays a huge part on making it turn properly.
If you put weight on the nose of it it will initiate turns better, then snap out of the turn with weight on the tail.
The channel system (which I have) has the reference stance marked on it. 25mm back is the way it is designed to be ridden.
Trying a narrower stance would help you flex the board with less effort.
BTW I weigh 170lbs(77.1kg) and ride a Custom X 159cm wide set 25mm back with approx 20.5 inch(52cm) stance.

Last edited by FirstChair; 01-30-2011 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 01-30-2011, 01:47 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by skipmann View Post
Have you adjusted the forward lean at all on your Cartels?
Ah, interesting. Do you mean the position of the "gas pedal" or the angle of the hi-back?

Btw, can somebody explain to me what the +/- switch at the back of the hi-back does? I've adjusted the hi-back to be more or less parallel with the heel edge, but didn't notice any difference between any of the switch positions.

Sorry for all these silly questions. My last pair of bindings pretty much only allowed me to choose the stance angle and the position along the board. This is all pretty new to me.
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Old 01-30-2011, 01:48 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Leo View Post
You need to keep in mind that this is an aggressive board meant for advanced riders. Might need to get used to it.
this.

the good edge hold often linked to the CX refers to riding the board with advanced riding techniques - doing pure carving or carving with minimal skidding, which invaribaly involve riding at speed.

the stiffness of the board will make it impossible for you to manipulate the board the way you manipulated your previous board(s). this goes for pretty much everything you learned on your previous boards. the CX will dictate how you have to ride it to tame it. this is good news - you'll have to learn near impeccable riding technique.

my two cents
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Old 01-30-2011, 01:51 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmann View Post
Thanks, but I'm riding boards with the Burton Channel system, so no traditional bolt patterns/locations on the board to deal with. I am thinking the channel system is the difference for me with regard to not having any issues with centering my stance...but not totally convinced that's the answer.
Actually there is a reference stance on every Burton board with the Channel system. Regardless of the width of your stance, you should stick with the amount of setback built into the board. The problem being on a directional board is that when you center the stance, you actually end up putting more drastic sidecut radius behind you rather than in front. That unbalances your carves and actually makes turn initiation more difficult and less responsive. It will feel like you're riding switch, but with a regular stance. Just because it looks like you have more board out in front of you doesn't mean you have more or even equal effective edge out in front of you as you have behind you.

If you're used to that then you've adapted, but it's certainly not ideal at all. If you want a centered stance, buy a true twin or directional twin board.
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Old 01-30-2011, 01:56 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The +- on the back of the highback is your forward lean adjustment : as you turn it , the highback will go forward +,or back -.
Mine are set at 2 and I have experimented with them quite a bit. Mine are Cartels also and 2 is quite a bit of lean.
When I got new boots I tried backing off the lean to 0 and it felt very unstable to me.
Hopefully this helps.

Last edited by FirstChair; 01-30-2011 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 01-30-2011, 02:04 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by skipmann View Post
Interesting statement...just wondering what your theory behind not centering your stance on a directional board is...I've been doing it on my last four boards, and haven't experienced any issues - to include both my 2011 Custom X and Custom Flying V.

Not trying to start an argument with you, just want to know the theory behind not doing it.
Depending on what is "directional" on your directional board, the answer is twofold.

1. Directional sidecut - always the sidecut is setback - meaning the waist (thinnest part of the board) is set back from the dead center of the board. Basically, you get the most performance out of your effective edge when your weight is centered over the waist of the board (how boards are designed). As this waist is setback on a directional sidecut your stance should be centered over the waist, not the board. This means you're not getting the most out of your board by centering the stance over the length of a directional board.

2. Directional flex - usually stiffer in the tail. Don't know/understand enough about this to give you any sort of answer but betting it has something to do with riding powder and having better pop.
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Old 01-30-2011, 02:33 PM   #18 (permalink)
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this.

the good edge hold often linked to the CX refers to riding the board with advanced riding techniques - doing pure carving or carving with minimal skidding, which invaribaly involve riding at speed.

the stiffness of the board will make it impossible for you to manipulate the board the way you manipulated your previous board(s). this goes for pretty much everything you learned on your previous boards. the CX will dictate how you have to ride it to tame it. this is good news - you'll have to learn near impeccable riding technique.

my two cents
This was actually one of the reasons I went for this board. I figured it would help me in my progression. I fully expected having to adjust to it. However I was expecting I'd have problems initiating turns or catching edges, whereas it turns out my main problem was the board slipping out from under me. Just didn't seem consistent with what I had heard from other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phile00 View Post
Actually there is a reference stance on every Burton board with the Channel system. Regardless of the width of your stance, you should stick with the amount of setback built into the board. The problem being on a directional board is that when you center the stance, you actually end up putting more drastic sidecut radius behind you rather than in front. That unbalances your carves and actually makes turn initiation more difficult and less responsive. It will feel like you're riding switch, but with a regular stance. Just because it looks like you have more board out in front of you doesn't mean you have more or even equal effective edge out in front of you as you have behind you.

If you're used to that then you've adapted, but it's certainly not ideal at all. If you want a centered stance, buy a true twin or directional twin board.
Regarding the setback. Presumably the channel's reference stance is already centred on the board's setback so as long as I move the bindings symmetrically around this stance, I should be OK, right?

FirstChair and skipman: thanks for the answer. I'll certainly look into adjusting the forward lean of the highback, though surely that mostly affects the handling the heel-side edge, right?
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Old 01-30-2011, 02:41 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmann View Post
Thanks, but I'm riding boards with the Burton Channel system, so no traditional bolt patterns/locations on the board to deal with. I am thinking the channel system is the difference for me with regard to not having any issues with centering my stance...but not totally convinced that's the answer.
I don't know for sure as I don't have one but I would be willing to bet that on a Channel board they set back both channels just like board with bolts set back the bolt pattern.
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Old 01-30-2011, 02:44 PM   #20 (permalink)
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As others have mentioned, every board type has a specific geometry. Directional boards will have a sidecut of which the most narrow point will be centered around the reference stance on the board. Yes, even ICS boards have reference stance points.

I don't know all of the technical engineering details, but the best way I can describe the feel of a centered stance on a directional board... it feels like you are riding switch when you are riding normal. That means it will actually ride better switch.

Centering yourself on a directional twin nets the same results due to sidecut. Basically put, when you center your stance on a board that is built with a setback, you are mounting your bindings forward. That's not a good idea.

To the OP: yes, start from reference stance and widen your stance evenly. You can move both bindings back for powder riding. Even if you move just the front foot forward, the ride will be affected. You can move just the back foot back, but it will still handle different. The difference just won't be as drastic as moving anything forward from reference.

I'm also not just pulling this from thin air. I have a directional board and I experimented with every stance imaginable.
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