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Rocker, Camber, and everything in between

275K views 448 replies 130 participants last post by  16gkid 
#1 · (Edited)
Looking around at all of the current board designs at the SIA show in Denver a couple of weeks ago was cool as always, but also dizzying. Board profiles (camber, rocker, etc.) were still the top story, with every booth showing off their favorite flavor (or in most cases flavors). It made me think how confusing it would be for a newer rider to make a board choice in the current market and how hard it would be to feel confident in their selection. There are now so many varieties out there that it is hard to stay on top of them all.

I thought it might be helpful to start a thread here that showed the basic profile types all in one place without the marketing spin. There are definately many sub categories of each, but these are the broad strokes.




Traditional Camber

Pros - Tried and true performance. Great rebound which helps transition from edge to edge and also adds to pop for ollies etc. Longer running surface means good speed and edge bite in carves. Boards can be ridden shorter than some other designs without sacrificing running surface.

Cons - The contact points of the effective edge (roughly the boards wide points) are in constant contact with the snow. That can mean caught edges and some hard take downs.

Rocker

Pros - Easy turn initiation. Lifted wide points even when weighted means less caught edges. There are many varieties of this design which include various degrees of rocker, asymmetrical rocker (nose lifted more than tail, rocker center point shifted more towards tail, etc.) and multi-stage rocker.

Cons - Lost running surface, lost rebound, lost edge grip (many rocker designs get around this by using other design elements to add grip back in).

Flat

Pros - Maximum Stability. Longer running surface. Boards can be ridden shorter.

Cons - No inherent rebound. Without additional measures these boards tend to feel less lively. The contact points of the effective edge (roughly the boards wide points) are in constant contact with the snow. That can mean caught edges and some hard take downs.

Camber-Rocker-Camber

Pros - Reestablishes much of the lost running surface inherent to camber and some of the rebound. There are many different varieties of this design which alter the placement of the camber and rocker elements as well as the dimensions of those elements.

Cons - Potential for more catchy spots due to the multi stage profile.

Rocker-Camber-Rocker

Pros - Reduces the issue mentioned above from traditional camber where the wide points create catch spots. Good rebound.

Cons - less running surface than conventional camber.

Flat with lifted contact points

Pros - Reduces the issue mentioned above from Flat where the wide points create catch spots. There are many variations of this design. Some have so long a flat spot that they are very close to flat. Others have so little flat spot that they might better be called "Rocker with a little flat spot".

Cons - less running surface than Flat.

Flat-Rocker-Flat

Pros - Reestablishes much of the lost running surface inherent to camber and some of the rebound. This design has a little smoother weighted profile than Camber-Rocker-Camber...

Cons - ...but a bit less rebound and pop.
 
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#387 · (Edited)
I hope i got it ok...

Hi Mihai,

Got it. You have two significant issues that are holding you back.

1. Your foot is 26 cm but your board is 26.4 cm at the inserts that you use. When you factor in stance angle, your feet are going to be ~1.5 cm inside the confines of the board's edges. That makes riding very difficult for new riders as it becomes difficult to leverage the board's edges.

2. You have your bindings mounted so that you have a significant amount of heel overhang and negative toe overhang. This makes it extremely difficult to get positive toeside turns and leads to that board driving you feeling that you mentioned.

I am very confident that once you have corrected your gear issues that your learning curve will see a dramatic upturn :).
 
#385 ·
When i was a kid and did ice slide, i used my right foot. Also, in the begining, at first year when i got my board i tried both feet, left and right and it felt better with my right foot in front. I want to change the board, mainly because last year i put my nephew on a board and it was instant love for him also. He got me gelous, after 3 days he rided far better then i was after 2 years, but being a kid you have less fear and you learn so much faster. So i want to pass him my Volkl (he is taller then me at 14 years old... 178cm) and get a new one for me and i said to myself, well , if i change the board i should get something that would help me more initiate turns, progress more. But there are so many variations of boards and so many opinions and i got confused. But maybe you are right and i suck if i didn;t progressed in 3 years :D. I will also get a lesson with an instructor, see what i'm doing wrong, but like i said, i still need to change the board.
 
#389 · (Edited)
Not quite. The board does not narrow enough (even at the innermost inserts) to fully correct this problem. Only a narrower board will do that (suggested). I would not suggest changing your stance width if that stance width feels correct. In terms of your heels being too far over the heelside edge, yes they are. We are looking to center your feet so that you have an equal amount of toe and heel overhang. Again, we are trying to center your feet, not the boots or the bindings.
 
#391 · (Edited)
Here is the photos with the new settings. I moved the bindigs to the point where i have 26CM. Also I made the nose longer then the tail and put a 0 degree on the back foot (right is the same, 15) so i would force myself to only ride with the right foot forward.

https://postimg.org/gallery/vw230stc/

If it's not ok, i can move the binding back to the edge because inside the binding, the pad on witch the boot stay, is adjustable. I can slide it forward. Now is fully backed
Hi,

Your foot is still much too far off the heel edge. Sadly it looks like your bindings have no other settings that will allow for your foot to be adjusted further forward. This binding is too large. This combination of too wide a board and poor centering will make riding very difficult.

 
#401 ·
Hey there... I believe you have your mounting discs positioned incorrectly.

The slots should go tip-to-tail, not edge-to-edge.

You should be using the heelcup on the binding itself, along with any possible toestrap adjustments to adjust toe/heel overhang. Once you have your boot centered, with equal overhang on each edge, then adjust your toestrap and ankle strap so they close properly when tightened.

I hope this is helpful!!


- Matty
 
#394 ·
Hi Mihai,

Yes, your binding is also simply too large for your foot and has no adjustment to compress it further or move it forward. As you can see you are not reaching the toe ramp. I would suggest a binding that is designed for your 260 Mondo foot. That will allow you both correct positioning within the binding and correct positioning on an appropriately sized board.

Do you have access to the board that you are considering? We are unable to tell from that info sheet what the width is at the inserts. Waist width should not be considered.

I think we may be struggling a bit with language so please let me try to show you what I am referring to. Please take the bindings off of your board. Please take off your socks and stand on the board where your bindings were at the same stance width and angles. Please center your feet between the edges when you do this. Please post photos of this.
 
#397 · (Edited)
Hi Mihai,

I hope that this is helpful for visualizing the issue. Your foot with zero degrees is just short of the edges. Your angled front foot is significantly inside the confines of the edges. We would like to see your bare foot just overhanging the edges for both toes and heels. That alone will make your riding much more positive feeling as the board will transition more easily from edge to edge and will allow better leverage and control when you are on edge. This is especially true for newer riders. Your second issue is actually what is causing you even more difficulty. The size of your bindings is moveing both of your feet back over the heelside edge (and by quite a lot). Inside your boots your toes are going to be far back from the toeside edge.

My suggestions:

First, find a binding that is made for a 260 mm foot (US size 8 in snowboard boots). This will allow you better centering on any board and will allow you to take advantage of the binding's features, such as toe ramping, which also will help you develop leverage.

Then, go stand on some boards. Don't be embarrassed to whip off your socks and stand on some decks barefoot. You are looking for overhang (both toe and heel). Do you have access to boards where you are? If not are you able to order online?

I can suggest a few products that I know will work for you but it sounds like yo may have limited access to gear. Is that correct?
 
#398 ·
I live in Bucharest, Romania so yeah i have some snowboard stores but they are more online orientated. We have some good stores in Brasov, wich is a mountain city but i can t go to another city just to test boards. I will try to see if i can view in store the raven gravy as they said the 154cm board is into the deposit and maybe they can bring it to the store to see it.
 
#399 ·
Until a week ago i never realised that a profile of a board would make so much difference. I have been boarding since 1998 back when a board was a flat plank. I have been riding a NS since 2012 which is a rocker camber profile. I replaced it this year with a Jones Mountain Twin which is a camber rocker profile and disliked nearly ever minute i rode it. In powder it was a great board but on the flat hard pack it felt as squillery as hell. Needless to say its now on Ebay.
 
#404 ·
Very informative.. Thank You!!

That said.. Are boards measured from tip-to-tip on a straight line OR measured along the rocker & camber which makes the measurements longer.

For example, my board size from tip-to-tip straight line = 152.4cm; then I measured along the contours of the rocker & camber = 155cm.

Unfortunately, when I got it, the size was not etched or printed on the board.

Any input is appreciated.. Cheers!!
 
#405 ·
Hi Spirit,

Great question. The answer will be unsatisfying. :)

There is no industry standard for what needs to be measured. Hypothetically, the most common measurement is a straight line from tip to tail (not following the countors of the board). But (and this is a huge but) many (most?) decks do not match the length that is printed on the deck. 1 or 2 cm off is very common. 3 or 4 cm off is not uncommon. The "size" printed on your board should be considered a marketing term only.

But...tip to tip measurement is a very poor indicator of how a board will perform. It is most valuable for determining the bag size that you should buy :). Factors like Effective Edge and Weighted Running Length will be much more useful.

STOKED!
 
#414 ·
@snowklinger, @Wiredsport,
Thank you guys, appreciate your replies! The reason why I was worried about the profile is that it differs so much from my older Standard (14/15) with a camrock. I was expecting something similar (well, maybe less pronounced), and when I've received the board it didn't look any close :nerd: OК, anyways it's a great board and maybe it's time to improve my riding technique finally, :smile:.
 
#427 ·
@ibo_nito - I have the same board in a 156, and it's definitely RCR. See attached pics - I've put green leaves to show where the contact points are. From your pics it does look like your one has less rocker than mine - maybe due to size difference?

Added a photo of my old Rome Anthem for comparison - that's a full camber board :)

Cheers, Barry
 

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#430 ·
Great thread. I've trawled through a lot of it but not every page, so apologies if this has already been covered. I'm wondering if a camber board would be suitable for a fairly proficient beginner/intermediate who is aiming to progress on to jumps and carves? Or would a hybrid or full rocker be more suitable at this stage? I'm guessing it's probably a case of horses for courses.
Ta.
 
#431 ·
Hi Bryan,

STOKED that you are getting started and that it is going well! You can absolutely start on Camber. Everyone did (as that was the only option) for most of snowboarding's history. There are more than a few riders that would tell you that this will lead to better technique in the long run. You are going to get some hard take downs and the learning process tends to be a little more punishing but it is entirely doable. RCR is also a great choice as this is really an eased version of Camber which can maintain a lot of the benefits but will greatly reduce the punishment.
 
#434 ·
camber or Flying V

I have the Burton Amplifier and the Custom Flying V. The Custom feels like riding a wet noodle compared to the other one. I only carve at the moment(haven't tried boxes etc...) I want something stiffer but am afraid of the camber which the Burton guy said I should get. So, for a lower intermediate carver, which would be better---Custom camber or the Custom X Flying V? --looked at Free thinker also, but really stiff camber.
 
#435 ·
I have the Burton Amplifier and the Custom Flying V. The Custom feels like riding a wet noodle compared to the other one. I only carve at the moment(haven't tried boxes etc...) I want something stiffer but am afraid of the camber which the Burton guy said I should get. So, for a lower intermediate carver, which would be better---Custom camber or the Custom X Flying V? --looked at Free thinker also, but really stiff camber.
Custom Camber is not that hard to ride. If you want to carve hard always go camber. The stiffer the board (less forgiving) the harder you can carve.
 
#438 ·
And on and on these companies r going to keep trying to come up with new weird things to ad and change the snowboards, WHY 😳 simple to make u all think your getting something cool and different And to take your money Remember it’s a business. Read the reviews, all the boards do everything great. All the bullshit u here from these companies. They make it sound like u buy this new design and presto u will become a great snowboarder. What a joke🤪🤪🏂🏂
 
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