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Rocker, Camber, and everything in between

275K views 448 replies 130 participants last post by  16gkid 
#1 · (Edited)
Looking around at all of the current board designs at the SIA show in Denver a couple of weeks ago was cool as always, but also dizzying. Board profiles (camber, rocker, etc.) were still the top story, with every booth showing off their favorite flavor (or in most cases flavors). It made me think how confusing it would be for a newer rider to make a board choice in the current market and how hard it would be to feel confident in their selection. There are now so many varieties out there that it is hard to stay on top of them all.

I thought it might be helpful to start a thread here that showed the basic profile types all in one place without the marketing spin. There are definately many sub categories of each, but these are the broad strokes.




Traditional Camber

Pros - Tried and true performance. Great rebound which helps transition from edge to edge and also adds to pop for ollies etc. Longer running surface means good speed and edge bite in carves. Boards can be ridden shorter than some other designs without sacrificing running surface.

Cons - The contact points of the effective edge (roughly the boards wide points) are in constant contact with the snow. That can mean caught edges and some hard take downs.

Rocker

Pros - Easy turn initiation. Lifted wide points even when weighted means less caught edges. There are many varieties of this design which include various degrees of rocker, asymmetrical rocker (nose lifted more than tail, rocker center point shifted more towards tail, etc.) and multi-stage rocker.

Cons - Lost running surface, lost rebound, lost edge grip (many rocker designs get around this by using other design elements to add grip back in).

Flat

Pros - Maximum Stability. Longer running surface. Boards can be ridden shorter.

Cons - No inherent rebound. Without additional measures these boards tend to feel less lively. The contact points of the effective edge (roughly the boards wide points) are in constant contact with the snow. That can mean caught edges and some hard take downs.

Camber-Rocker-Camber

Pros - Reestablishes much of the lost running surface inherent to camber and some of the rebound. There are many different varieties of this design which alter the placement of the camber and rocker elements as well as the dimensions of those elements.

Cons - Potential for more catchy spots due to the multi stage profile.

Rocker-Camber-Rocker

Pros - Reduces the issue mentioned above from traditional camber where the wide points create catch spots. Good rebound.

Cons - less running surface than conventional camber.

Flat with lifted contact points

Pros - Reduces the issue mentioned above from Flat where the wide points create catch spots. There are many variations of this design. Some have so long a flat spot that they are very close to flat. Others have so little flat spot that they might better be called "Rocker with a little flat spot".

Cons - less running surface than Flat.

Flat-Rocker-Flat

Pros - Reestablishes much of the lost running surface inherent to camber and some of the rebound. This design has a little smoother weighted profile than Camber-Rocker-Camber...

Cons - ...but a bit less rebound and pop.
 
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#4 ·
this helps me alot since im just getting back into the game and all this new stuff is confusing. but could someone tell me what each one does? flows website has descriptions of each profile/design but they all just make it seem like each profile/design type does the same thing, or maybe its just the way im reading it.
 
#7 · (Edited)
I'll take a crack at that, but please understand that these will be sweeping generalities and that all of the other elements of board design will also play a role.

Traditional Camber

Pros - Tried and true performance. Great rebound which helps transition from edge to edge and also adds to pop for ollies etc. Longer running surface means good speed and edge bite in carves. Boards can be ridden shorter than some other designs without sacrificing running surface.

Cons - The contact points of the effective edge (roughly the boards wide points) are in constant contact with the snow. That can mean caught edges and some hard take downs.

Rocker

Pros - Easy turn initiation. Lifted wide points even when weighted means less caught edges. There are many varieties of this design which include various degrees of rocker, asymmetrical rocker (nose lifted more than tail, rocker center point shifted more towards tail, etc.) and multi-stage rocker.

Cons - Lost running surface, lost rebound, lost edge grip (many rocker designs get around this by using other design elements to add grip back in).

Flat

Pros - Maximum Stability. Longer running surface. Boards can be ridden shorter.

Cons - No inherent rebound. Without additional measures these boards tend to feel less lively. The contact points of the effective edge (roughly the boards wide points) are in constant contact with the snow. That can mean caught edges and some hard take downs.

Camber-Rocker-Camber

Pros - Reestablishes much of the lost running surface inherent to camber and some of the rebound. There are many different varieties of this design which alter the placement of the camber and rocker elements as well as the dimensions of those elements.

Cons - Potential for more catchy spots due to the multi stage profile.

Rocker-Camber-Rocker

Pros - Reduces the issue mentioned above from traditional camber where the wide points create catch spots. Good rebound.

Cons - less running surface than conventional camber.

Flat with lifted contact points

Pros - Reduces the issue mentioned above from Flat where the wide points create catch spots. There are many variations of this design. Some have so long a flat spot that they are very close to flat. Others have so little flat spot that they might better be called "Rocker with a little flat spot".

Cons - less running surface than Flat.

Flat-Rocker-Flat

Pros - Reestablishes much of the lost running surface inherent to camber and some of the rebound. This design has a little smoother weighted profile than Camber-Rocker-Camber...

Cons - ...but a bit less rebound and pop.
 
#8 ·
This is an excellent reference tool. Both the diagrams and the descriptions are very clear -- among the best I've seen.

I have just one comment, which concerns the two popular hybrid configurations that you have accurately listed as "Camber-Rocker-Camber" and "Rocker-Camber-Rocker." The companies that use these camber types tend to name them from the inside out, i.e., they start with what's between the bindings and then go to what's under the bindings or at the tips. Camber-Rocker-Camber becomes just Rocker & Camber, or R.C. (as Never Summer calls it), and Rocker-Camber-Rocker becomes Camber/Rocker, or CamRock (as Nidecker and Jones call it).

Hopefully this will help avoid any potential confusion about how these configurations are employed by board makers.
 
#9 ·
Another variation is the cambered board with a lifted tip and tail. Kessler started this in the snowboarding world for racing, with others quickly following. It's been "the" design that is putting riders on the podium. Alpine riders in general have embraced the technology.

Coiler NSR2 (New School Race) with lifted tip and tail:


From Catek's website, NA dealer for Kessler, "What is it that makes Kessler boards so special? According to Hansjürg Kessler, the most important component of the boards' success is the KST shape – an advanced, multi-radius sidecut, combined synergistically with a totally revolutionary nose shape, camber profile and taper to ensure fantastic edgehold as well as incredibly efficient and smooth turn initiation and completion.

Unlike other board designs, which can overpressure the tip and tail during a turn (exhibited as a tendency for the nose to "dive" or "plow" during turn initiation, and the tail to "hook" at the end of the turn), the Kessler KST shape redistributes edge pressure, so that the nose feeds smoothly into the turn, providing maximum acceleration and optimal edge pressure distribution. The tail of a KST board releases cleanly and smoothly at the end of the turn. The overall smoothness of the KST shape increases rider control and safety, reduces skidding, and ensures maximum speed throughout the turn.

And what about the construction? Well, Kessler has been specializing in titanal construction snowboards for years. Since vaulting onto the US scene with Philipp Schoch's Gold in the 2002 Salt Lake Olympics, Kessler titanal boards have racked up an overwhelming number of wins. Kessler has continually tested and refined board construction techniques, and produces the most advanced, most copied, and most envied titanal boards in the world.

Hallmarks of the Kessler construction are superior torsional strength, with a supple longitudinal flex pattern that enables the board to track unerringly over difficult race conditions. The boards provide tenacious edgehold, smooth tracking, and a damp, controlled ride.

It all adds up to a world-beating product, and CATEK is very excited to be able to offer Kessler boards to North American riders."

In my own words, the lifted (of decambered) tip allows faster/snappier carve initiation. It slices through the snow, guiding the way to decamber the more stable cambered main section. The result is less chatter and more stability. The lifted tail allows a cleaner, faster release that isn't as "hooky" as traditional all-camber shapes. As the Kessler description alludes to, these boards are also generally being made in conjuction with chatter dampening titanal lamination(s) and modern progressive sidecuts, which are usually tighter in nose through more open in the tail, to fully compliment the benefits of the lifted tip/tail design. These boards are generally made for balls out, high speed carving with very high edge angles. A side benefit, though, is that if the rider is skidding turns (ie; at much lower edge angles), the lifted tip and tail are not at a high enough angle to be engaged, so the board skids around like a much shorter board, with only the cambered section biting the snow. So my 182cm Coiler for example, rages full length in carves, but rides more like a 160-something board at slower, skidded speeds, in crowds, etc. :thumbsup:
 
#13 · (Edited)
Remember these old Look Lamar boards from the early 90's?



Ahead of their time in terms of using rocker and lifting the contact points.

The Morrow spoon was an early cambered model that lifted the contact points with base contouring at the tip and tail. First Rocker-Camber-Rocker at the edge line?

 
#14 ·
Hybrids...thats all you need to know..

Here's mine.. Flow merc 153 love the thing..

MPD,

Please take a shot of your Merc shooting straight at the sidewall with the lens at the same height as the board with the board on a smooth hard surface (not carpet please). That really shows of the profile and lift points...and the Merc/Venus have a pretty cool profile story :)

I think it would be cool if we could get a bunch of photos in this thread that show popular boards shot in that same way. A lot of times the actual profile that shows up after production is pretty surprising.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I recently wrote this in another thread:

Consider this: TBT basically combines two profile technologies. The boards are cambered if you follow the line of the center base, but if you were to follow the edge line, they are Rocker-Camber-Rocker due to the TBT lifted edges at the tips and tails. TBT does not lift the edges in the mid section, so you go from the cambered portion where the edge and the base are at the same level to the tips where the center remains cambered while the edges rocker upwards.
 
#19 ·
Hi Baron,

The mid sections of all of the 2012 boards are still all single base with the triple base not starting until further out on the boards. That is one of the core features of the design. The various versions of TBT all vary where and how significantly the TBT begins after the flat (edge to edge) mid section as well as the relative width of the flat section in relation to the raised edges on the TBT portions. I think what you may be referring to is that the TBT extends all the way out to the tips now.
 
#26 ·
I find it really interesting that around tradeshow season last year, every was talking about how reverse camber and its variations were on the way out and camber was going to be back in full force. But this tradeshow season, the talk was reverse camber was here to stay. There are a hand full of pro models that have embraced reverse camber shapes for next year.
 
#27 ·
I think a company should sellotape a camber board on top of a rocker board so it has camber pop and stability and rocker playfulness and float. It'd have the best of both worlds, like Hannah Montana, only more manly and, er, a snowboard.
 
#28 ·
This is a great thread... I have been out of the game for a bit but gotten bit by the bug again and looking forward to getting out a bunch more and will be looking to get a new set-up.. my current board is like 6 years old but in good shape. This was very helpful as my preliminary research had me head scratching a bit.
 
#30 ·
Rocker or Flat with lifted contact points are likely the two easiest profiles in terms of the first few days of riding. BUT, as with all things in design, if you get something, you give something. They are initially easier because the contact points and much of the running surface has been lifted. Those surfaces are less available to the rider as they progress. That is great for some types of riding and less advantageous for others. Please note that most riders get through the part of the learning curve where this is a major issue in a matter of a few days, so they are really better advised to rent during that period and then buy a board based on the type of riding they want to do.
 
#32 ·
hey wired i read all the stickies and thanks for the info its been a big help. my question is i was advised by two members to start with a traditional camber not rc board to insure i don't develope bad habits and another member said it would be better to start with a rc board so im not spending more time learning to get up rather then riding.
which do you think is a better way to start traditional or rc?
 
#35 · (Edited)
You will hear both opinions on this.

Some generalities:

Starting on camber will teach you something about using your edges (and the beginnings of carving) pretty early on in the game. This comes at the expense of some hard take-downs and a bit slower learning curve during the first few days.

One thing to consider will be what you eventually want to do. Do you see yourself favoring speed carves on East Coast hardpack, cord ducking powder runs, spending your day killing the park?

Keep in mind that Reverse Camber does not always refer to one thing. It is fairly commonly used as a catch-all for all of the technologies other than camber. There are big differences in how much ease each of these will contribute early on to your riding.
 
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