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This place has become my sanctuary...

5K views 41 replies 14 participants last post by  sirhc.yaj 
#1 ·
Like the old man looks forward to his lazy boy after work, I head here after all is said and done at the mountain.

Just need to vent a little bit about such a screwed up first day on my slayblade and 4th time snowboarding ever. I love the sport wholeheartedly and as a result I went from learn to ride at hunter to investing in a 2011 stick+. I have no problems on green and spend some time on blues.

Now to put PARAGON SPORTS on BLAST.
For all you beginners out there heed this thread and avoid a disastrous day on the mountain like I had.
The guy at paragon sports who sold me my stick was so interested in completing the sales transaction, because they work on commission, that he failed to property install my bindings correctly, which led to continuous spill after spill. Waaaaaaaaaaay to wide on the bindings and the screws were left loose, "recipe for danger". Fortunately for me the pros at hunter adjusted the bindings similar to the ones on the LTR boards.

This def made a difference but I was still busting my ass. The terrain was loose/frozen granular and I remember the board mechanic mentioning something about a new boards sharp edge catching. After giving up on the day I sat on the bus back home and googled the effects of a new boards sharp edges and learned about a think called detuning.

Check it guys:
"You will want to detune the tip and tail edges beyond the effective edge when you purchase and before you ride a new snowboard or hit rails. Detuning the tip and tail edges will prevent your Snowboard from catching too early in turns which at high speed may cause serious injury"

Do I have every right to go to paragon and open up a can of whip ass or is this not that serious of an issue? Has this happen to anyone else who rode a new non-detuned board on loose frozen gran? Thoughts please..
P.S Paragon sports has not heard the last of me..
 
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#2 ·
Hmmm... No... I don't detune personally.. The only thing I could think of that you could complain about would be that their binding set up really screwed you up..

but here's the deal.... They should've made sure the screws were tight but to some extent they can't over-tighten the screws because you could just say they stripped your inserts or whatever... uhm binding width, you won't really know yours until you get comfortable..

Basically the only thing they did wrong was didn't tighten them enough...

Binding width, angles, and edge tuning are all personal preferences you just have to learn for yourself... I would say just don't be angry with them unless you want to comment on the screws not being tightened...

But at the end of the day it's personal responsibility... trust me, my first board had women's bindings was set to give me MAXIMUM toe drag... and yeah, thanks Scheel's sporting goods..


You have to remember just because they are selling you stuff doesn't mean they know shit about it, unless it's a specialty snowboard store then fuck those guys.
 
#5 ·
I'm aware of what type of board I am riding and most importantly stay within the terrain of my ability, which I think accounts for a lot. My question was in regards to binding set up, loose screws and detuned edges, an why the fukc am I on a slayblade "because I got a killer deal on it and I makes me feel warm and fuzzy"
 
#8 ·
Get used to avenger, he's that kid hanging from his underwear from a tree branch with a baseball bat...

Yeah he's stuck in a tree, yes he'll hit you with the bat if you try to talk to him.

Regardless: If you go to a place and they have a tuning shop, the first thing if you don't know what you want done.... ask them for tips/information

*A shop guy is not going to do anything to your edges other than sharpen them unless you ask.
*If you told them you were a beginner, that's sort of their fault with the width... they should've put you at the stock inserts.

I still can't believe you didn't realize your bindings were loose until you were on the slopes.
 
#10 ·
Here's the thing, I didn't know they were loose either. The tech guy at hunter adjusted my bindings to a setting more suitable for my riding stance in front of me. He said look at this and with total ease unscrewed the screws underneath the disk covers. He said they didn't even tighten the screws. Nonetheless I'll take my board in to detune the tip and tail and keep it moving.

I learned that these forums are here like a brother/sisterhood to help one another and you always have one or two who deserve the dunce cap. Thanks for the input bro..
 
#9 ·
This def made a difference but I was still busting my ass. The terrain was loose/frozen granular and I remember the board mechanic mentioning something about a new boards sharp edge catching. After giving up on the day I sat on the bus back home and googled the effects of a new boards sharp edges and learned about a think called detuning.

Check it guys:
"You will want to detune the tip and tail edges beyond the effective edge when you purchase and before you ride a new snowboard or hit rails. Detuning the tip and tail edges will prevent your Snowboard from catching too early in turns which at high speed may cause serious injury"

Do I have every right to go to paragon and open up a can of whip ass or is this not that serious of an issue? Has this happen to anyone else who rode a new non-detuned board on loose frozen gran? Thoughts please..
P.S Paragon sports has not heard the last of me..

I honestly think you got the wrong board. 4th time on the mountain and you're riding a beast....the board is definitely riding you. I dont think it has anything to do with de-tuning edges...just a lack of skill/experience (not bashing at all...just saying you're not at that level yet). I think you were falling on your ass cause you werent use to the stiffness of the board....being that the only thing you were exposed to were crappy LTR boards. There are experienced members here that have boarded all their lives that think the slay is a hard charger not to be messed with...so dont take offense.

So yea...Paragon sales staff got commission happy and sold you the wrong board...setting up the bindings wrong was on the shop people...but its still on you to check your equipment before going out....and it doesnt matter if you scored a deal on a board that wasnt meant for you. I could score a deal on Salomon F22 boots (which I love)...but if they are size 11 (i wear 8.5)....ZERO value to ME.

Also...i would think you want sharp edges if you were riding in frozen conditions...
 
#11 ·
You can learn on a slayblade, you just have to realize you're moving up to riding a geared mountain bike after playing around on a tricycle.. it's going to piss you off and you are going to have to accept it. :dunno:

You're probably doing skidded turns.. the problem is the slayblade is made for someone who is experienced in carving and dynamic turning... in my opinion it is a progression board from intermediate to advanced.

It's an amazing board in my opinion (I've only ridden a slayblade for one week) but you have to be on the level to control the board.
 
#15 ·
This def made a difference but I was still busting my ass. The terrain was loose/frozen granular and I remember the board mechanic mentioning something about a new boards sharp edge catching. After giving up on the day I sat on the bus back home and googled the effects of a new boards sharp edges and learned about a think called detuning.

Check it guys:
"You will want to detune the tip and tail edges beyond the effective edge when you purchase and before you ride a new snowboard or hit rails. Detuning the tip and tail edges will prevent your Snowboard from catching too early in turns which at high speed may cause serious injury"

Do I have every right to go to paragon and open up a can of whip ass or is this not that serious of an issue? Has this happen to anyone else who rode a new non-detuned board on loose frozen gran? Thoughts please..
P.S Paragon sports has not heard the last of me..
Detuning is more of a park thing (although not exclusively) that keeps you from catching on the rails. It's definitely not something that most people would regularly recommend to a beginner like yourself. Probably wouldn't have much of a case if you ran into a shop yelling about why they didn't suggest a detune.

I would suggest doing some more research and getting a lot more riding experience in before venting. There's a lot to learn and the things you hear on the message boards and interwebs often has to be taken into context (which again requires more experience).
 
#18 ·
Detuning for a beginner is not such a bad thing. It will help them catch edges less in theory. That being said, I wouldn't suggest it. The edge catches are crucial to the learning process IMO. How are you going to know what doing it wrong feels like if you're equipment doesn't allow you to do it wrong? Of course, I tend to learn things the hard way. :)
 
#21 ·
The detuning of the tip and tail is really an option for most people that does not make a huge difference. I find it helps in moguls to prevent the tail or the nose from catching; other than that, no real noticeable benefit.

When it comes to edge catches, the thing that does make a huge difference is the edge bevel. Most beginner boards come with a 3 degree bevel to help make them more forgiving. I am not familiar with the slayblade, but being an advance board, I am guessing it has no bevel or a 1 degree at most....:dunno:

A park board often comes with a 2 degree bevel to make landing a bit less touchy and rails easier to not catch. The great thing about having the edges beveled is it provides a margin of forgiveness, but still allows for good edge hold. The rider just needs to tilt the board a little higher on edge to get the sidecut to bite.

As an option, you could take the board to a shop and have a 1, 1.5 or 2 degree bevel put on it. I would NOT bevel beyond 2 degrees as this will begin to limit edge hold ability and you cannot undo this without a serious base grind and even then, you are only going to do so much.
More sensible advice and I intend to follow. I also intend to rock my board on terrain I'm comfortable on and progress at my own pace. If I can master this board other boards of equal or lesser difficulty should be easier, optimistically thinking and not recommended. Any ideas on binding degree settings? Flow NXT-AT, I'm loving the step in feature, quick and easy off the lift..
 
#22 ·
I ride 12/-12, but take what style of stance you want (duck, forward, whatnot), put on your boots/bindings and keep tweaking your settings until you find that comfortable position. I used to rie 15/-15, but I found it to be too wide for me. I ride with equal duck because I would like to progress relatively equally in switch riding as with regular. I'm not accomplishing that right now, haha.
 
#23 ·
The detuning of the tip and tail is really an option for most people that does not make a huge difference. I find it helps in moguls to prevent the tail or the nose from catching; other than that, no real noticeable benefit.

When it comes to edge catches, the thing that does make a huge difference is the edge bevel. Most beginner boards come with a 3 degree bevel to help make them more forgiving. I am not familiar with the slayblade, but being an advance board, I am guessing it has no bevel or a 1 degree at most....:dunno:

A park board often comes with a 2 degree bevel to make landing a bit less touchy and rails easier to not catch. The great thing about having the edges beveled is it provides a margin of forgiveness, but still allows for good edge hold. The rider just needs to tilt the board a little higher on edge to get the sidecut to bite.

As an option, you could take the board to a shop and have a 1, 1.5 or 2 degree bevel put on it. I would NOT bevel beyond 2 degrees as this will begin to limit edge hold ability and you cannot undo this without a serious base grind and even then, you are only going to do so much.
Yeah, you can learn on any board. An advanced b
oard like this is not forgiving of poor riding or just not paying attention so your workload will b increased in the learning phase. One thing about it though, you will be forced to learn good riding technique by this board and in the long run, you will likely become a better snowboarder for it. Just understand that the learning curve will be a bit more difficult and frustrating
As for angles, there really is not a "right" or "wrong" here and there is no "perfect for learning" setting. Go with what is comfortable, but I always recommend using at least a slightly ducked stance as opposed to the forward stance. The reason is because we naturally (unless you're pigeon toed) stand with our feet pointing slightly ducked and I try to set up students in as natural a stance as possible.
Additionally, when learning, it is important to try to keep the upper body aligned with the board. People tend to ride in a countered stance (facing forward) a lot and this hinders them for going toe side. Being set up with forward angles, I find, exacerbates this problem.
Just came across a thread you wrote about beveled edges, extremely informative. I am going to the board shop tomorrow to get my base edge beveled to 1 degree, or do you think I should 1.5 it to feel a slight difference? I know it's a hard charger but even 2% of an overall positive adjustment of the bevel, binding and a prayer will make a difference..
 
#24 ·
Go for 1 degree (assuming you have no bevel) first and ride it a bit. If you still want more, go and get a little more. Better to do a little at time than to do too much and then later, when you are wanting a more aggressive edge, wishing you hadn't done so much!
Good things bro! Be back after trial and error.
 
#26 ·
I was a bit pf a noob when i bought my first board. I had been riding for one week and i went out and bought the old Ride Timeless...the funky green one with the orc/ganie dude on it....i bought it mainly cos it looked cool even though it was stiff and a touch too long!!!

It was an absolute beast and loved to throw me off for the slightest mistake. I know now it wasnt the best choice of board. Hit a kicker...whats that you landed slightly on the tail or edge...here is the floor my son!!! I should have got a more fogriving board, however it WAS amazing just carving slopes and it ruins powder...glides effortlesly.

now i have the Custom TMS which is a GREAT board. Still a freeride board of sorts but will let you play in teh park and is much more forgiving. The Timeless has bumpers now to h9old the front together after collisions with rocks but it'll come back out to play one day!
 
#27 ·
IMHO....do NOT detune or re-bevel it...you will want the edges later when you can ride. For now, just suck it up and take your lickins; you will learn to ride it or wuss out. If you want, get a used learner board...there's plenty for cheap and learn to ride. My first boards were advanced/expert boards and beat me til got aggressive enough to ride it instead of it taking me for a ride. In the long run it makes you a better rider but a more painful learning experience.
 
#28 ·
Always, always, always detune your contact points. Even if its just a little. The last thing any snowboarder, and I mean any snowboarder (park rat, eurocarver, weekend warrior), ever wanted to do was to get hooked into a turn they didn't intend to make. Thats my 2¢ anyway. As far as the shop thing goes.. I worked at a shop for years, and I didn't sell one board without at least explaining what detuning was, and offering to detune it. Nothing quite like the look on an uninitiated customers face when you take a file to the edge of their brand new board. :laugh: As far as Paragon is concerned, I was there earlier this season and got some decent help. It's really a crap shoot. Some of the employees take their time to learn and really care about the product and the customers. Other people are just doing a job. My suggestion to you would be to tour the shops local to you (this shouldn't be tough as there are fewer and fewer every day), bullshit with the employees, find somebody who not only seems to know what they are talking about, but who is genuinely interested in the conversation. Thats who you want to buy your gear from. Go back to them religiously. I know Homage in BK has some super knowledgeable employees, Blades too. You just have to weed through the shit ones. Also, don't shop at the Burton store. They're killing snowboarding.
 
#29 ·
Eh?

My opinion: Detuning is overrated. I've never once detuned any of my boards. Detuning, nay, beveling makes more sense for jibbing than normal riding.

The only boards I would ever consider detuning are ones with magnetraction.

I think it was a combination of improper board setup and the fact that you got a beast of a board as a beginner.
 
#30 ·
You detune the contacts to keep it from hooking. You detune the effective edge, or at least between the bindings for jibbing. Two totally different things. Also, there's no more or less reason to detune an MTX than any other board. Also, if you've never detuned a board, what leads you to believe its overrated? But yeah, it does sound like a the board was set up by a jackass...
 
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