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Is their a difference in board companies that are top quality

10K views 71 replies 21 participants last post by  Deviant 
#1 ·
I have a 08/09 Rome Agent and just love it. It has been a great board and ill ride it tell it breaks. I do though want a 2nd board and i'm not sure if i'm going to buy a mountain board or park. My problem is since i've been looking around is their really a difference in top end boards? The technology is the same right? Everyone is using the 'latest' stuff so what is the difference?

If you take Burtons top park board along with Rome, NeverSummer, Libtech and others is there really a difference? Sure they are different companies made in different places but the technology today id say is the same? Is it just preference like the old Ford Vs Chevy debate?

I'm looking into NeverSumer and a 2nd Rome for my second board but im undecided and unsure about above what i just asked. Neversummer sounds like a great snowboard company but if i got the Raptor or Romes Anthem for mountain would i even notice what board i was using if i wasn't told?

I am a advanced/expert mountain rider and beginner park and have no problems going anywhere. I'm not new to the sport by any means but i've never really asked myself the above question. Help?
 
#2 ·
The difference is going to be the factory. Anything made in china is going to be built with higher tolerances since the companies can afford it. We here in the US demand more money for the same jobs so the US made companies usually involve more hands on techniques and the build is different. If you take a real close look at like a K2 and a NS or Mervin, you'll see a diffence in how it's built. Other differences are who each company chooses to buy materials from. Glass makes a diffence. There is weak fiberglass, average, and good shit out there. Depends on whose using what. There is also pre-preg resin vs mix on site, wet lam vs what they do in China... Without looking, I can tell when I step on a Ride, or a Mervin, or a NS... the way they're built makes them feel different.
 
#4 ·
The difference is going to be the factory. Anything made in china is going to be built with higher tolerances since the companies can afford it.
Not neccessarily true, the majority of companies move manufacturing overseas to save money and very few of them put those savings into increasing quality control. Most of the savings goes directly into the pockets of executives, marketing, advertising, market growth, etc.
 
#3 ·
I wont buy anything made in china unless its the last option.

Products made in china are made to break so you by them again. Slave labor producing crap goods is not something i support.

But boards like my Rome that was made in Austria and others in Europe and America that make quality stuff, is their really a difference when it comes to the close details like i said above in the OP.

I don't know if i would be able to tell the difference if i rode Burtons best or Romes best. So does it even matter what you buy. (remember im NOT buying chinas garbage)
 
#9 ·
Well we all have our opinions on chinas goods. I have my reasons for not supporting them but thats another topic all together.

This NS losing the snap...i've never rode a NS nor do i have any friends that do, have riders always had this problem? When you say 50 days...man thats not a long time. =[

The more i read i think im gonna stick with Rome. I've been happy with them.
 
#25 ·
I'll buy anything from anywhere as long as it's good. And china as long as I don't eat it, eat with it, nor cook with it I'll buy that shit too. American cars are full of japanese parts, Japanese cars are made in america. What difference does it make nowadays.

I do like stuff that's made in America though. What I do like is things like Vman telling the factory shit ain't working and they fix it. Makes me feel all touchy feely about supporting an All American venture.

But if the better product comes from over there I'm going to have to buy it. Make the US companies try harder.
 
#26 ·
I personally dont care where my board comes from as long as it last me till I get my money out of it. There is a reason it is called a world economy and everyone needs everyone else to work. You cant just go around and say all overseas items are second to us and the same with what we make. As one of the biggest consumers in the world countries know if they give us shit we will not buy it. That is why also China helped us out by buying some of are debt up, when we were in a jam. Yes I am proud to be an American hell I do something about it then most, I fight for my country. People just need to get over the fact of where shit is made and buy it cause they like it.
 
#31 ·
The reason to buy American isn't that American goods are superior, it's to keep the money in our own economy. If you buy shit from lib, the US as a whole has no net change in worth (your $600 just went to another american who's going to spend that money on making more stuff for americans.) If you buy shit from china, that entire $500 in value is now gone from America.

Also, Chipotle was my pre-boarding calorie bomb of choice all last season. <3
 
#32 ·
You've got to remember that the company is still based in the US even though they manufacture somewhere else. For example, Nike produces nearly everything overseas but they pour tons of money into the local economy around here and around the country.
 
#37 · (Edited)
There are a lot of horrific assumptions in that article, I'll pick out a few:

The second and more likely possibility is that the money will be spent on American goods or services, or invested in the U.S. economy, either directly or indirectly.
The US has an extremely imbalanced trade deficit with China, (source, 133 billion per year deficit) which means that dollars that go to China are much less likely to come back to the US in any form than Yuan that are spent on US exports are to go back to China. Further, Chinese "investments" in America come in the form of buying up US debt (bonds and other treasuries) which has gone through the roof in recent years, treasury bonds don't exactly wind up directly in the hands of americans. Chinese ownership of american debt was only 6% as of 2000, but has shot up to 36% currently. If the US were a company, China would be damned close to owning a majority share.


The author also assumes that an american spending 15k on chinese goods (worth 20k if americans made them) and 5k on american goods is better for american economies than just spending 20k on fewer goods, even though all of the jobs are slanted heavily to the chinese side of the equation. However, history shows that this isn't good economic sense, when the US was producing more and importing less, total cost of living relative to income was way down. Currently the average household (keep in mind many households are dual-income now) spends 34% of their income on just a mortgage or rent payment, in 1960 the average household spent just 13%, and that was nearly all single income households. Source.


Anyway, I'm sure none of this will change your mind at all, so enjoy shredding on whatever you end up buying!

EDIT: I just read through a bunch of the comments on that article. Did you realize that nearly everybody that posted there disagreed with the author? I saw one "agree" for 28 "disagrees".
 
#38 ·
Mervins factory workers are very lucky if they get paid $20/hr or more. Trust me. And you make it out to be that the individual gets the whole $600. They dont. Mervin is owned by Quiksilver. You don't think any of that money goes to that CEO? Not to mention the extent of the Asian influence on snowboarding and how much they stimulate our market. Same with Europe. In the next 5-10 years, or possibly sooner, we will not be dictating the direction of the sport. Asia and Euro will. And for them buying made in US is a huge deal, so if the market there gets bigger its better for us than if we keep it here.

Can buying US help our economy? Yes. But its not going to do much in the snowboard industry specifically. So buy what you want and what rides well.
 
#39 ·
Mervins factory workers are very lucky if they get paid $20/hr or more. Trust me. And you make it out to be that the individual gets the whole $600. They dont. Mervin is owned by Quiksilver. You don't think any of that money goes to that CEO?
I agree, I don't know the amount of time spent making a single board, nor the workers actual wage. I assumed 16 hours of work on one board @ 20/hour as a baseline. Assuming the labor time is the same for a chinese board, the labor cost is $320 for a US board (seems quite high, so my numbers are likely wrong,) and, being generous, 16$ for the chinese board. The gap between those two numbers is the lost value to the american economy, as the chinese guy isn't going to spend any of that money on american imports. The profit on the other end of the spectrum will go into corporate investments, and will likely not see circulation in the US economy on either side.


Can buying US help our economy? Yes. But its not going to do much in the snowboard industry specifically. So buy what you want and what rides well.
I agree, every one purchase is marginal, the initial discussion was just about "why" you'd want to buy an american board, since they aren't necessarily better. The macro economics are the reason.
 
#40 ·
Most US factories pay between 8 to 16 dollars an hour there might be instances the person is making 20 but I'd be hard pressed to find someone being paid that. When my brother was pressing boards in the mid to late 90's he was paid 8 something which at the time NYS minimum wage was less than 5 an hour.

As far as "skilled" they'll hire any idiot off the streets I'd trust the Chinese because once those guys are trained they're there for life. Chinese board builder > American.
 
#41 ·
Nivek, if you are going to talk about board companies, and their financial structures, at least be educated on the subject. The CEO for Quicksilver doesn't take money from Mervin. He likely receives a bonus if Mervin achieves the goals that Quicksilver sets for that division, but it's not like the CEO is some czar that collects all the monies from every entity within their umbrella.

CEOs are elected by boards and are figure heads for decisions, but they are far from owners. Shareholders however are, and receive dividends based on company performance.

I hate when people try and educate people on a subject, but then are clueless how companies work. I realize you are likely a kid, but still. If you are going to educate people, know what you are talking about.

I do agree that you should buy what you want. K2 and other companies do outsource their labor, but thats more for economical reasons and bottom line, than boasting another countries income. Said another way, buying a K2 board in the US is supporting our country more than theirs.
 
#43 ·
I find it funny you try to lecture Nivek, taking his statement that is obviously figurative, and turning into something literal, and in the process get it wrong yourself.

You call the CEO of Quiksilver just an executive, not an owner, that is elected (or more accurately appointed) by the board. You fail to realize that many if not most of all CEO's become major shareholders due to grants and options and even signing bonuses usually(I know, I've had to review many Fortune 500 executive contracts and analyze the compensation packages). You also fail to realize that often times CEO's are actually the founder or co-founder of the corporation. In this case, that is true as well.

A quick search of Quiksilver's financials finds that its CEO Robert McKnight, an original co-founder, owns over 4.3 million shares. So this ceo gets its compensation, bonuses, dividends and capital appreciation of his shares from performance of all the underlying properties, including Mervin. He is more than your typical shareholder that you cite, his whole life depends on the profitability of underlying properties.

To quote a certain someone:
I hate when people try and educate people on a subject, but then are clueless how companies work.
;)
 
#44 · (Edited)
Nothing I said wasn't factual. He can now be bought out by the board the minute it went public. And I see points go flying over your head. The point was, it's a public company, Quicksilvers decisions are all at the approval of the shareholder. And he doesn't collect a check made out to him to horde all the cash home for himself.

I find it funny you think you have a point. My point was this is a public company. And you better believe, no matter how many fucking shares he has, once he makes decisions that compromise what the board wants, his power will be gone.

So to pose the question back to you, refute that Quicksilvers CEO isn't an execute. Then refute that he isn't the sole owner, that in fact he is a shareholder. Does he own a large number of shares? Yes. Does he make decisions for his pocket alone? No. If he did, his power would be revoked. You seriously need to learn what a CEO is in a public company. It's actually quite embarrassing that you do accounting work for large firms and don't understand this. Can't imagine my buddies at PWC and Deloitte not understanding that a CEO is an execute and subject to the same rules as every other corporate employee.
 
#47 ·
Dude, I already destroyed your post. I'm not impressed with PWC and Deloitte friends. I am a business attorney and used to financial plan for Fortune 500 companies. Yes I said the companies themselves, who hired the company I worked for to provide complete financial, investment, employee benefit, insurance and tax planning for C-level execs and board members. Since we're throwing around names here how about I tell you Goldman Sachs bought that company out.

How about I point out that someone who tried to school someone in here about corporate matters keeps calling a CEO an execute. Twice. What the hell is an execute.

You have no clue what you are talking about. NONE. I don't have the time to destroy another post of yours. But this one statement alone would make anyone remotely familiar with corporate governance laugh uncontrollably at the mere suggestion of it.

He can now be bought out by the board the minute it went public.
You have no idea what a board does, it's duties, its responsibilities, nothing. If you did, you wouldn't have made such a nonsensical statement.
 
#46 ·
Does it matter whether the CEO is american or chinese? The money paid to dudes that own a lot of stock is typically not liquid within the economy, it just gets stockpiled or thrown back into the stock market casino. It's the schmucks that have very little money that will spend every penny they have on surviving that creates additional demand, which in turn creates a positive feedback loop that stimulates the economy. Some asshole that has billions of dollars already isn't going to create more demand just because he makes a few more dollars off a board sale.
 
#49 · (Edited)
I work for a fortune 100 company, own stock myself, and absolutely know that a CEO is an executive. Why? Because I watched HR take away our CEOs ability to revoke hires and fires. So if you think a CEO isn't an executive, you're on crack. Hell, the second word in CEO is executive.

I'm done arguing with Bras. No other message board would you ever find anyone arguing that a CEO of a public company isnt an executive. Fucking moron.

And no BA, not owned. Lang has no fucking clue what he is talking about. He mispoke confusing public and private companies and not is drowning. Let him sink...don't sink with him BA. I had hope you were more than just a mountain bra my friend. Prove me right...
 
#56 ·
I work for a fortune 100 company, own stock myself, and absolutely know that a CEO is an executive. Why? Because I watched HR take away our CEOs ability to revoke hires and fires. So if you think a CEO isn't an executive, you're on crack. Hell, the second word in CEO is executive.

I'm done arguing with Bras. No other message board would you ever find anyone arguing that a CEO of a public company isnt an executive. Fucking moron.

And no BA, not owned. Lang has no fucking clue what he is talking about. He mispoke confusing public and private companies and not is drowning. Let him sink...don't sink with him BA. I had hope you were more than just a mountain bra my friend. Prove me right...
I never argued a CEO isn't an executive. That is a strawman argument. There's a good chance I reviewed your CEO's compensation package, and planned his finances for the next 10 years. If not me, than a colleague.

I never argued a CEO was not an executive. You argued he was only an executive. I showed you a CEO is an executive AND often a shareholder.

You still haven't even corrected your mistake that a Board of Directors can "BUYOUT" a shareholder once they go public. Hah! You're are trying to school a guy who has drafted bylaws, shareholder agreements, taken a mutual fund public, deals with the Securities and Exchange Commission on a regular basis, produces public filings, incorporates small businesses,etc. etc. I know exactly what I'm talking about.

You even got Apple/Steve Jobs wrong. Shareholders elect directors. They don't hire the CEO. That's up to the Board of Directors.

I'm done here. I don't even have a horse in this race, other than taking issue with you trying to correct someone and being a dick about it. if you just clarified his post all is well, But you came in insulting and didn't even get it right yourself. I'm not even insulted you tried to call me a moron when everything coming out of your computer/phone is so far, mostly wrong. ;)

So like you said, lets drop the corporate talk, focus on snowboards that's why we're here :cool:
 
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