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Old 09-07-2011, 10:09 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Edges can be tuned or detuned for different variety of purposes without compromising board function. Instead of changing it from it design purpose, I think of it as closely optimizing it for a more specific purpose

Snowboarders have it a bit easier, particularly since snowboarding is mostly freestyle/freeride oriented rather than alpine oriented. Ski racers will tune base and side angle edges to 0.25 degree increments on Wintersteiger machines so their base and edge angles achieve the right combination of grip and turn in. It will vary for outside and inside edges. Some skiiers will even set up a progressive or degressive tune tip to tail depending on the conditions and grades being ridden.

Luckily, most snowboarders can get away with an 89/89 tune and a detune contact point to nose/tail. This will handle 90% of the riding most people will do.

East coast is a bit sketchier because everything is hardpack so sharp edges are kind of required, but because there's no pow, there is a huge focus on freestyle making detuning for kinks somewhat desirable. I find a 88.5 or 88.0 degree base with a 89.5 or 89.0 side edge for a 91.0 degree set works pretty well as a compromise.

One rule of tuning I personally follow is to always tune a little bit at a time and to tune the base edge first before you remove side edge. You can always overtune the side edge to get more grip later. The only thing you have to worry about lifting the base edge bevel up too much is riding steep grades becomes more of a chore.

You won't hurt your board by detuning the nose and tail. The only reason the edges are fully wrapped is to protect against damage. This is something Mervin doesn't do and I really can't see it saving much in the way of materials, weight or cost.
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Old 09-07-2011, 10:57 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Changing the bevel is a personal preference for sure me I run 90/90 but most of my buddies run 89/91.
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Old 09-07-2011, 12:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Back on topic. If it is just a matter of MTX vs VG. Then for grip alone MTX is without question the better of the two. I don't know if you guys night board on the east coast but that would be the best example of the two tech's. MTX gives you a lot more confidence because it'll just grip, stick and slice through the ice. With VG in the worst conditions I have to go slower and have experienced the edges washing out more.

Yes people complain about the 'stickiness' of MTX but that is just personal preference and sticky = grip in my opinion. It is a lot of hype over nothing because there are many many variations of MTX and the subtle waves are not sticky at all but still offer better grip/traction than VG.

Regarding the quality of construction, there is no question NS has a better topsheet. Mervin boards gets banged up very easily. In 1 day of riding, it'll look like 2 weeks while my NS boards are still mint. I will say however the Horsepower boards or those that have the basalt construction do last much longer than the regular Mervin topsheets.
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Old 09-07-2011, 01:08 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Try the Smokin magnetraction. They use a slightly melower magnetraction that I like a lot better then the way that Lib does it. The NS vario works well enough for me. It is not as good as even the mellow Smokin MTX but it is very predictable. I ride a lot of wind blown ice and it pretty much sucks with anything.
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Old 09-07-2011, 01:17 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Out of the 3 companies I rode with Magnetraction I did prefer the smokin over the others. Yes I ride nights the slopes near me are open either till 9 or 10 depending on which one I am at.

Dano- try and see if you can try them out. I know NS is not easy to come by where you are but try and hop on a MTX board if you can. It really comes down to what you prefer.
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:13 PM   #16 (permalink)
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You might find that the R&C profile gains some grip back over BTX/C2BTX despite the Mervin MTX sidecut having much more outright grip than Variogrip. Driiving it through the nose to turn then really weighting the board like a regular camber stick when traversing across the falline on hardpack, I find I have more than enough grip.

I found MTX to be grippy and not particularly catchy on a Park Pickle BTX, AG C2BTX and T. Rice and T. Rice HP C2BTX. However, I also didn't find the extra grip.

Both of these sidecuts and camber profiles are going to have enough grip where you can make a small adjustment and have identical performance on both sticks.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:06 PM   #17 (permalink)
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This is absolutely great, thanks for all the input boys! Even if it did make this decision even harder . I rode my buddy's 2011 T.rice for a few runs last year and it was pretty much exactly what I'm looking for, the only issue is that I hear such great stuff about Never Summer that it's really just deciding between the known vs unknown.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:38 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Never ridden a Mervin, but I can agree about NS VG working well but not being bullet-proof. I hardly ever ride ice so it's not a problem for me, but the few times it's been sketch-o-ice I was definitely checking my speed and watching my edge.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:51 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Dano, they are two different rides IMO. I also felt the Heritage and SL were more damp than the Rice / Phoenix, and could plow through just about everything. That said, the Rice / Phoenix were IMO more fun to ride, because I thought they were torsionally faster edge to edge, a litte bit looser without being squirely, and IMO, felt they were a little more snappy.

It was about 6 months ago, so it's not as fresh in my mind, but I just remember feeling more of a damp, plank like ride from Never Summer, and more of a loose, responsive ride from the Lib Tech.

So it really depends what you are looking for. Heritage you could charge almost anything, but the T Rice had some more play for me. FWIW.
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Old 09-07-2011, 04:06 PM   #20 (permalink)
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FWIW there's so much more to this decision than just edge hold and control. Durability, dampness, speed, weight, traction, float, and how it handles jumps and natural features are all part of the equation. I know well enough the board doesn't make the rider, the rider makes the board. This will probably be the last board I buy for quite a long time and I'm really looking at all the angles. I've been doing a lot of my own research as opposed to starting a lazy douche bag "which board should I buy?" thread, I think we've sat through enough of those . I've read all the reviews, watched all the YouTube vids, researched and compared the features & tech, and I've ridden what I can.

To be honest, the reason a board I've never even seen in person is in the final 2 is because of the 3 year warranty, the TLC that clearly goes into these decks, customer service, and the high esteem in which NS is held here. (While trying to cut out the blind uneducated unwavering fan boy love as sometimes witnessed in the Burton, Union, or Evo threads)

That's why this been such a great help, you guys clearly know your stuff. Thanks again
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Last edited by Dano; 09-07-2011 at 04:39 PM.
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