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NeverSummer SL? You Tell Me!

41K views 69 replies 20 participants last post by  powderjunkie 
#1 · (Edited)
I’ve been riding for about 12-13 years. Started in 1999-2000ish. I can handle a variety of terrain. I am 90% riding around the mountain and 10% doing tricks off of natural features. I don’t do the park anymore really – maybe a lap or two through it as I cruise around.

I am on the east coast and ride mainly hard packed snow .... man made snow (errr....ice), etc.. I do however take trips out west and when I do, I want to be able to ride the powder without struggling or nosediving. In fact I need a new board because I'm headed to Whistler in a few weeks.

Well the board I have had for a few years is a traditional camber – and that’s where my problem is.

I’ve always ridden a camber board – but I hit a rail at the end of last year and it broke the top sheet up off my board. I’ve read reviews where people had a hard time adjusting to camber/rocker/camber like Never Summer has. I’m just wondering what you think would be a good board for me?

I am 5'11 / 139 lbs, goofy stance.

I am seriously considering buying a NeverSummer SL. Is this the right board?

I want something that is:

Stable at high speed
Good on hard pack
Playful - because I do like to butter around while I ride, switch, press while riding, etc..
Good for powder (for trips out west) - no nosediving!

In short, I am more all mountain than just the terrain park. I like to hit natural features and be playful - all the while staying on runs. I don't know whether to go with the SL or the Proto or the Heritage or the Cobra... I don't care too much about graphics... obviously no pink fairies on the board... but the ride of the board is more important. I rather have a huge smile on my face as a graphic because the board rocks, versus some cool art photo on it.


Thank you!
 
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#2 ·
Personally, I'd go Proto. Decent float in powder, blunted tips mean you can downsize without giving up effective edge length, and similar flex profile to the SL - not too stiff to play and not too soft to bomb.

The Cobra doesn't make much sense for you if the majority of your riding is on the east coast. It's basically a playful powder stick. Sucks for riding switch and I found it to be twitchy on groomers.

The Heritage is a great board, but again, for primarily east coast riding, I think it's just too much stick.

The SL is a great all-around board, but I prefer the blunted tips of the Proto. IMHO, the Proto pretty much made the SL all but obsolete.

If you really want a great powder performer, you can always demo a true pow stick when you go out west if you get lucky and get a truly deep powder day.
 
#3 ·
Thanks for the opinions. I read that the Proto has dampness rating similar to the EVO - which was less than the SL and heritage. Do you think this is really noticeable? Will a dampness of "4" be that much different than one of "5" on the SL?

So essentially, the Proto is an SL, with a notch down on the dampness, and blunted tips for reduced weight?

Also - what do you mean by too much stick for the Heritage ( in regards to east coast )... too damp/heavy/stiff?

I only do this every few years and my head is spinning. Especially due to all the new stuff out there. :laugh:
 
#4 · (Edited)
You gotta remember, each manufacturer makes their own scale. That means that it's a "4" in dampness in terms of the NS lineup.

ALL NS boards are pretty damn damp.

The Heritage just loves to point and bomb. Similar to the Cobra basically being a playful pow stick, the Heritage is basically a playful bomber. That board would just be getting warmed up on each run back east as you were easing back into the lift line.
 
#5 ·
That's a good point. For some reason when I looked at the dampness scale - I assumed industry standard, my mistake.

So the cobra is out - the heritage is out... leaves with me the Sl and Proto. Would I be able to go with a 153 and not wish I had gone with the 155?
 
#6 · (Edited)
Yes. A 153 Proto has virtually the same effective edge length as my non-blunted 158 Evo.

When it comes to dampness and stiffness, most all NS boards will be stiffer and damper than other companies' similar boards. Meaning that a NS park stick will be stiffer and damper than most companies' parks sticks, etc.

One of the reasons why I recommended against the Heritage for you is your weight. It's just going to be a lot of board for someone as light as you are.
 
#7 ·
Yes. A 153 Proto has virtually the same effective edge length as my non-blunted 158 Evo.
Wow. That's quite a difference. Could you elaborate a bit?

I'm not fully understanding how chopping off the tip of the nose/tail gives a more effective edge (at shorter lengths).... my understanding is that the edges used to grip are simply along the sides of the board?

Another way of saying it - how is the edge increased, simply by removing the tip of the nose. No one carves into the snow with the edge on the nose unless you are front flipping... if that makes sense? :dizzy:
 
#8 ·
I am 5'11 / 139 lbs
boy, you skinny!

also, consider the carbonium topsheet when making your decision. If that's something you'd like, know that the SL doesn't have it

If you want some more info on the heritage/cobra, read snowolf's review thread of the cobra. He's ridden the heritage for quite some time so he makes comparisons between the two often in his posts on that thread
 
#9 ·
With the blunted tips, the contact points are moved further out. The contact points on the Proto are much closer to the tips than on a non-blunted board, so your effective edge length is longer than comparably sized boards.

Compare this:



To my non-blunted Evo:



Not the best pics to demonstrate the difference, but hopefully you can get the point from them. But, I laid my 158 Evo beside snowklingers 153 Proto and they were virtually identical length contact point to contact point.
 
#13 ·
The Carbonium boards are quite a bit lighter than the NS boards of old. Never SUmmer's used to be among the heaviest boards out there. That's no longer true. Most of the boards are average weight compared to other brands and the Cobra in particular is shockingly light in my experience. I've spent less time on the Proto than the Cobra, but I plan on changing that soon. The Proto will probably be my next board. Probably gonna sell my Evo and Heritage and just go with the Proto.
 
#14 ·
I'm pretty sure the 154 proto has the equivalent effective edge to the 156 SL (or whatever the wide version is called) you can look up the stats on the site if you really want.

The Proto does feel lighter than the Sl in the hand. with bindings, boots and on your feet you'd be hard pushed to tell the difference.

You would probably feel the difference in dampness if you rode some lumpy snow on one then swapped to the other, if you pick one and ride it. I suspect they'd be too close to wish you had the other.

Buttering etc, both fine no problem. Though more effort than the Evo for sure though.

Power, both fine. Apart from 1 day where the power seemed really sticky and it was hard work (on the SL) all other pow days on both proto and SL have been zero effort. (though switch pow riding on the SL is more difficult (but still doable) - assuming you retain the standard setback).

Sl slightly better for freeriding and fast piste. Proto slightly better for playing. I believe the sidecut is slightly narrower radius on the Proto, so tight turns are slightly more it's things than drawn out ones. But you're talking nuances only. I'd suggest going with the one you like the look of more if you can't try them.
 
#15 · (Edited)
I'm 5'9 150 lbs. I own the Proto 154 and the SL 155 and ride in Lake Tahoe. I say go with the SL 153 - it is noticeably more damp than the Proto. The blunted tips do give the Proto a tiny bit (1-2cm) more effective edge with respect to the overall running length - but it's about a 1-2% difference (compared to compared to something like the Virus FLP AFT which has like 15 cm more effective edge).

A 155 is fine as well - I was 140 lbs when I got my first SL 155 cm and I rode it in the park all the time. The difference are subtle (I prefer the 155 myself, but I like slightly longer boards).

A few clips of me riding the SL 155

Not the best technique, but you get an idea of the dampness and edgehold, it is more difficult to do this on the Proto


I'm at 0:48s


I'm not the best at boxes
 
#16 ·
This is a really tough decision. I was thinking the SL... then after this thread I thought the proto... now I'm not sure.

A store I contacted has the Proto in 154. I could also get the SL in 153 or 155.

I was thinking of combining these with Burton Genesis Reflex bindings. What do you think? I wanted the smooth, comfy ride, but with a playful ability for 180s, butters, goofiness etc.
 
#19 ·
The plus side here is with either board you will be happy.

I have both the Proto (157) and the SL (155) and love them both. Others have provided some points on the differences between the two but I do really think they are small nuances vs. major differences.

To me, the SL does feel more damp and handles speed a bit better. The problem with that statement is... the Proto is nice and damp, and fine at speed too! The Proto is a lot of fun to play on. It is not a "park board" noodle for sure but still a blast to ride. The problem with that statement is... it wasn't like I was bored riding my SL before getting the Proto.

So yea, with either board you will be happy but I do tend to agree with lonerider that based upon what you've said the SL wins it by a hair.
 
#20 ·
I am gonna agree with Lonerider on this and recommend the SL. I've owned the SL, Heritage and now ride a Cobra. The SL is a fantastic deck that is good on groomers with great edge hold while being ok in powder and still playful.

I demoed a proto last year and it was a good deck but not as damp as the SL and more freestyle oriented.

If your looking for all mountain/freestyle = SL if you want freestyle/all mountain = proto.
 
#21 ·
Crap - forgot to add a comment about bindings...

SL = Burton C02s: I like a firmer binding on this board so I can really crank on it at speed and get that responsiveness.

Proto = Burton Prophecy (Re:Flex): I went with a softer binding with more flex/board feel for the Proto. I like them a lot but sometimes I miss the better responsiveness of the C02s. I think that is just personal preference and riding style.
 
#22 ·
I also personally like a more responsive binding ... I had a pair of Rome 390 BOSS on my Proto and a pair of Burton CO2 Re:Flex on my SL... but at the end of last season, I switched the CO2 onto my Proto and I like that setup better. I sold the 390s and just picked up a pair of FLOW NX2-AT that I haven't tried out yet (man... if you had asked me 5, 10 years ago if I would ever get a pair of Flows). Hopefully, I'll like them... (else they'll be going back to Backcountry.com).
 
#24 ·
To the OP have ridden both boards and I say for your needs go proto.

The difference is small, but the proto is lighter and the blunted tips are a bonus IMO, longer effective edge and better for spinning as well.

The SL may be very slightly damper which is really the only plus point IMO.

At the end of the day they are quite similar and you will enjoy either.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Cool clips of riding. Skill doesn't matter - remember that. Snowboarding is so much more. Those who rip on other people because they can't throw a switch cork 1080 are simply either 14 or have yet to grow up.

It was hard to tell the dampness of the riding except for the first vid - it looked really smooth and solid. Then again... Lake Tahoe is awesome compared to my local hill... err bump.

Am I missing out on the Carbonium topsheet? I wish the SL had that look. The stance of the SL is also slightly set back compared to the Proto though.... this would probably help for trips out west...

The shop only has 1 proto left and a couple SL's. Maybe I can demo both in the same day and see. That's if no one buys the proto in a couple weeks... or the SL size I want.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Yea, the first clip was to show the dampness and edgehold, the other two clips were to show that an SL can still be playful.

Demo'ing is definitely the best way to find the best match for you. That is going to be better than any random stranger's advice on the internet.

The Carbonium topsheet is a fun, but not a must have in my opinion. If you are riding smaller hills at slower speeds you might not miss the dampness of the SL (I would but that's my opinion). The Cobra is about the same as the SL in dampness AND has a carbonium topsheet, but is slightly more directional (I read that you didn't want the Cobra for some reason... but I forgot exactly why). Again, based on what you do... the SL or the Cobra.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Leaning much towards the SL because of the snow issue and where I mainly ride. As a powder stick-all terrain / playful board.. I think the SL will suit me for east coast riding with the odd trip to the west for some mountain riding. Whatever it is, I hope it will suit me better than my current board which has an almost-see through base and a topsheet of wood splintering up 4 inches lol

Now I have a problem with bindings... Here's the thread
 
#31 ·
So i've been doing a bit of reading - and it seems that the Cobra is an upgraded SL - with the same dampness and flex. The only major two differences are the tail shapes and the carbon top. Though to be fair I have read that the flex is a bit stiffer than the SL. By the same token, I have also read that it pops much better than the SL.

Can anyone confirm this after riding? I'm sure I'd be happy in all honesty with the proto, sl, or the cobra - but now that I'm in my mid to late twenties versus getting the first board at 13 - you want to pick one after much thought instead of grabbing anything :laugh:

Maybe the cobra is the board to go for? It seems to have adopted the Proto's features on the tail, it uses Carbonium, and keeps the same specs as the SL. Kind of the best of both worlds? Though unlike the twin tips, it has a more gradual nose and sharper tail, which allows the back to sink into pow as far as I understand. Not that useful on the East Coast (I ride at Holiday Valley), but for trips out west it may be a good all around board.

Thoughts? My only concern would be riding switch and how it handles that. I don't ride switch for the whole run, but I like to mix it up with the butter here and there.
 
#32 ·
Well the Cobra is only available this season... so not many people have actually ridden it aside from Leo and Snowolf - both of them have posted long, positive review threads that wax poetically about the wonders of Never Summer (search for them). I plan to demo it sometime this season.
 
#37 ·
That's definitely how the Cobra is marketed to be (SL replacement) and hyped up by pre-season reviewers. I'm excited to try out the board, but I personally try to be careful not about boards I haven't personally ridden myself.

Good luck and have fun - you really can't go wrong!
 
#41 ·
If the Cobra has the same dampness and flex of the SL - but with the added benefit of Carbonium and a better powder riding experience, isn't it then a SL board, with the benefits of Proto tips, and better powder?

Essentially it's an "SL +1"?

I get the feeling some are saying it's mainly a powder rider... 95% of my riding isn't in powder... so the SL or proto would be better... however if I can get a board that combines the two with some extra... it seems like a good choice?
 
#43 ·
No. The Cobra has a different nose/tail shape than the SL, which is a twin with setback and I believe directional flex. The Cobra is not a twin at all, it has a spoon nose and spaded tail for powder.

I don't understand people leaning toward the Cobra for a quiver killer at all. I'd ride one, but it would only come out on DEEP days. I weigh 175lbs and can ride my 54 proto in pretty deep snow. This thead has devolved after the very first page into complete overthinking and wrong thinking imo.

Linvillegorge was spot on in the first place. Even the Heritage would be a better choice than the Cobra imo.
 
#46 ·
I think you should wait until you get to Whistler.

There are so many pro riders that get shit loads of free boards that live in Whistler. They could care less how much they get for that free board.

Have a little look in the Whistler Craigslist, maybe a few days before you leave check it out, find a couple you like, research them, then when you get there, pull the trigger.

You'll probably save a few hundred $$$, if your not set on a specific brand.

A couple months ago I bought a Ride Slackcountry with Ride EX bindings for $150, that's a $1000 setup.
Then I got him to sell me a pair of 2013 Ride El Hefe's(reg $400) for $100.

In about ten min I'm leaving to drive 2 hours each way, to go buy a pair of brand new 2013 Ride RFL boots for... Ready... $100 bucks.

Trying to find the perfect board before you by it, is almost impossible IMO.
You'll end up payin' way more & you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.

I just snapped the Slackcountry after riding it for 30 feet, I never even got to try it. It broke my heart as well:sad:, I really wanted it to be my go to powder slaying monster deck.
But @ least it didn't cost me an arm & a leg

Worst case scenario, you get to try a board a while, sell it for more than what you paid & buy something else.

Lib Tech Box scratcher
Full rocker, & magna-traction. I just got banana a while ago, a 156, I usually ride @ least a 160 & I was surprised how well it rode in the powder.
So even though it's a 151 with your weight, it would rock the powder.:eusa_clap:

Pretty damn good Ice coast stick as well:thumbsup:


TT
 
#47 · (Edited)
There are so many pro riders that get shit loads of free boards that live in Whistler. They could care less how much they get for that free board.

I just snapped the Slackcountry after riding it for 30 feet, I never even got to try it.
You just learned something I learned a decade ago when going to a pro rider swap sale during the summer at Mt. Hood... a lot of those boards the pro riders are selling, if used, have the crap ridden out of them... and that's part of the reason why they are so cheap.

Pro riders are generally very poor and are not stupid (well not THAT stupid)... they generally try to get as much money as possible for the board in the minimum amount of effort.

In about ten min I'm leaving to drive 2 hours each way, to go buy a pair of brand new 2013 Ride RFL boots for... Ready... $100 bucks.
So 4 hours of driving... at roughly 70 miles an hour = 280 miles, assuming you get 20 miles per gallon (sorry not going to switch to metric), that's 14 gallon... at $4 USD a gallon, that's $56 USD in gas. And... if you worked a minimum wage job at $10 an hour, that's another $40 - so the true cost of those boots is about $200 - that's a decent deal... but it took extremely measures to get that deal (you could get roughly the same discount if you bought last year's model... and rarely does something improve so dramatically the next year).
 
#52 ·
Agreed. I was up to 7 boards, but I'm down to 5 now. Plan to be down to 4 soon.

I have my rock board, my split, a NS Evo, a NS Heritage, and a Charlie Slasher. Plan on keeping the split, rock board, and CS, then selling both the Evo and Heritage and probably replacing them with a Proto as the all around, do everything stick.
 
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