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Old 01-17-2013, 09:30 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Waxing is a science and racers do it because races are won on the order of seconds to milliseconds. Every bit helps. My argument was that it makes less of a difference than base shape/geometry. Maybe I shouldn't have used marginal but can you quantify the increase it makes? The only time a really notice a board being low on wax is on flats and even then it doesn't really stop me. Of course I don't usually go more than 3-4 trips without waxing. I probably overdo it but I also realize the gains I'm getting aren't going to be earth shattering, and the board I pick from the quiver makes more of a difference for a variety of reasons.
Yea, that's what I meant by the marginal difference between types of wax because racers get picky over milliseconds.

I can't quantify how much difference waxed vs a bone dry sintered base makes, but I can definitely notice. I'm not blessed with awesome conditions in Michigan. Our man-made crap eats up wax like nobody's business. I notice when my board needs wax. This is why I also use rub on wax for in-between sessions religiously.

Also, I agree with you on overall board selection making big differences.

Just saying, the wax thing isn't marginal. Maybe for riding optimal conditions it is
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:49 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Why did you ignore the important part of my post? Which do you think would be faster? The waxed 150 or the unwaxed 160? Boards dont operate in vacuums. Custom Xs are fast because they lock into carves, whereas bataleons get pretty sketchy at high speeds. But that isn't in a straight line. Your conflating a number of things that contribute to overall speed. To say that base tech plays less of a role than wax is wrong.
Dude remove all the wax from your board and go ride any thing other than super freezing crud or ice and see what happens. If it barely makes only a mili sec. difference, why do you even bother waxing. If you speak the truth I'm over waxing. When a base is bone dry not only it will not move on sticky pow. It will stop you cold over the handle bars. A base is built to be used with wax. It's pores absorb wax. From the start I said all the tech on a board is important but you guys wanted to discount wax and I think that's wrong.

And your argument with the 150 waxed or 160 unwaxed, 150 all day on variable snow.. There are a lot of things that make the board fast but that lube called wax between the snow and the board, that's what makes it a rocket on almost any snow when done right.

Last edited by RockSteady; 01-17-2013 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:58 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Except you are wrong. Maybe try this. Ride a 150 and a 160 of the same board and straigtline it. Which one do you think will be faster? Even the 160 without wax will likely be faster than the 150 with wax. The gains from waxing in most conditions are marginal.

As to which boards have the fastest bases? IME Bataleon TBT bases are the fastest. Not because of material but because of the camber+TBT. Almost no drag in the snow=straightline rocket.
Are you serious? You go ride a board that hasn't been waxed in weeks and then compare that to a freshly waxed board. WAXING MAKES A DIFFERENCE.
DUH.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:15 PM   #54 (permalink)
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I hear graphite is suppose to be good for going fast. I've never played around with it, but is this true? Also does it go on like regular wax (iron on and scrape)?
Graphite is good stuff, its only in black so it just makes your board look all dirty if its not black but if you don't care its fast. Yeah you can put it on like normal.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:25 PM   #55 (permalink)
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From the start I said all the tech on a board is important but you guys wanted to discount wax and I think that's wrong.
Actually no you didn't, i just re-read over the posts and you said nothing of board tech until i brought it up, to which you replied that waxing has more of an effect on a boards speed than base tech.

Don't start changing your argument now. Fact is, your opinion is that wax makes more difference to a boards speed than its camber, base and edge tech. My opinion is that base tech, edge tech and camber play a larger role in board speed than waxing.

I think most people will agree that waxing makes a marginal difference, probably only importantly measurable when it comes to racing. And while many people can tell the difference between a freshly waxed board and a bone dry board i believe that the type of board and its footprint on the snow have a much more dramatic effect on its overall speed.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:37 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Are you serious? You go ride a board that hasn't been waxed in weeks and then compare that to a freshly waxed board. WAXING MAKES A DIFFERENCE.
DUH.
Did you even read the thread? Of course waxing makes a difference, if we are talking about the exact same board waxed or unwaxed. But board base tech, profile, stiffness etc make a much more significant difference.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:43 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Dude remove all the wax from your board and go ride any thing other than super freezing crud or ice and see what happens. If it barely makes only a mili sec. difference, why do you even bother waxing. If you speak the truth I'm over waxing. When a base is bone dry not only it will not move on sticky pow. It will stop you cold over the handle bars. A base is built to be used with wax. It's pores absorb wax. From the start I said all the tech on a board is important but you guys wanted to discount wax and I think that's wrong.

And your argument with the 150 waxed or 160 unwaxed, 150 all day on variable snow.. There are a lot of things that make the board fast but that lube called wax between the snow and the board, that's what makes it a rocket on almost any snow when done right.
Lets be clear here. No one discounted wax altogether. This is what started this whole argument
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Im tipping that the big difference between the custom x and hotknife is the magne traction and the camber profiles, they would have more of an impact on board speed than anything else.
That does make a difference but not more than wax
You are stating that wax makes more of a difference than base type, camber profile, edge tech, stiffness, length etc.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:55 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Actually no you didn't, i just re-read over the posts and you said nothing of board tech until i brought it up, to which you replied that waxing has more of an effect on a boards speed than base tech.

Don't start changing your argument now. Fact is, your opinion is that wax makes more difference to a boards speed than its camber, base and edge tech. My opinion is that base tech, edge tech and camber play a larger role in board speed than waxing.

I think most people will agree that waxing makes a marginal difference, probably only importantly measurable when it comes to racing. And while many people can tell the difference between a freshly waxed board and a bone dry board i believe that the type of board and its footprint on the snow have a much more dramatic effect on its overall speed.
OK..lets go over this champ

me: "Most every higher end freestyle board like LIB snowboards have a good base that is very capable of high speeds but this is only one part of the problem."
-All I say is that wax is super important

You: "Im tipping that the big difference between the custom x and hotknife is the magne traction and the camber profiles, they would have more of an impact on board speed than anything else."

Me: "That does make a difference but not more than wax"

-you take this as me saying wax is more important than all this other stuff, I'm not trying to say anything is more important or less important. read it again buddy, I'm just saying that nothing is more important than the substance that makes it so your board can move quick in every condition...anything will move on ice, common sense.
Now you go off arguing and claiming I think waxing is more important than size, structure and side cut...lol

You: "The amount of surface area in contact with the snow at a time most certainly does make more of a difference than the type or amount of wax used. "

Me: "Large or small a snowboard with a sweet wax job will fly. Take the Wax off a board or remove tires from a vehicle, no matter what the size it is, it will barely move.
This is why Snowboarder's and Skier's have what are called wax techs not board size techs. Although I'm in no way saying surface area and size donesn't matter, I'm just saying nothing's moving with much speed on snow with out something to help break friction touching the the snow.

BY THE WAY JUST TO MAKE THIS CLEAR, ICE AND MAN MADE FROZEN CRUD IN SUB ZERO CONDITIONS IS PACKED FROZEN WATER,THIS IS ONLY ONE OF MANY MANY MORE SNOW CONDITIONS

Last edited by RockSteady; 01-17-2013 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:57 PM   #59 (permalink)
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OK..lets go over this champ

me: "Most every higher end freestyle board like LIB snowboards have a good base that is very capable of high speeds but this is only one part of the problem."
-All I say is that wax is super important

You: "Im tipping that the big difference between the custom x and hotknife is the magne traction and the camber profiles, they would have more of an impact on board speed than anything else."

Me: "That does make a difference but not more than wax"

-you take this as me saying wax is more important than all this other stuff, I'm not trying to say anything is more important or less important. read it again buddy, I'm just saying that nothing is more important than the substance that makes it so your board can move quick in every condition...anything will move on ice, common sense.
Now you go off arguing and claiming I think waxing is more important than size, structure and side cut...lol

You: "The amount of surface area in contact with the snow at a time most certainly does make more of a difference than the type or amount of wax used. "

Me: "Large or small a snowboard with a sweet wax job will fly. Take the Wax off a board or remove tires from a vehicle, no matter what the size it is, it will barely move.
This is why Snowboarder's and Skier's have what are called wax techs not board size techs. Although I'm in no way saying surface area and size donesn't matter, I'm just saying nothing's moving with much speed on snow with out something to help break friction touching the the snow.
What is the change in the coefficient of friction for a waxed and unwaxed board then?
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:10 PM   #60 (permalink)
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What is the change in the coefficient of friction for a waxed and unwaxed board then?
I don't know the answer to that but I can tell you it completely depends on the condition and is going to vary greatly based on the conditions. I can also tell you I've nose dived hard off of a booter first shot over the handle bars cause my board stuck to the snow. With out wax I'lll pick my board up and it will have a foot of snow stuck to it like Velcro. You get those wet hot sticky left over spring conditions, no wax= brakes, Wax= HorsePower
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