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Old 01-31-2013, 12:07 AM   #91 (permalink)
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I bought my Heritage back in the fall of 2010. I had no connection with the company or with anyone on the forum. I bought it because it was being offered for a good price, people had said good things about NS, and I was curious about the rocker/camber. Also because I'd outgrown my beginner board.

I like the Heritage. I make no bones about that. I don't claim it's the best board out there because I haven't owned enough boards to make that determination. But it's a good board, and lives up to any of the hype that I've read about it.

My next board will probably be an NS, but not definitely. Something else might trigger my curiousity or someone might just be selling something for killer cheap at the right time.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:14 AM   #92 (permalink)
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For full disclosure.

Then there is always this

56538-never-summer-design-team.html

Holy crap! Thats just... um... i dont even know how to get my head around it. I always knew this place was a bit kool aid on neversummer, and i dont hate them, they make solid decks, but wow!

This is how it is though on any message board on any subject: A few of the more active guys who know their stuff tend to dictate the main drive of the conversation. If you come here, prepare to have neversummer shoved down your throat, and if you go to easyloungin, expect to have C3 or whatever core riders set up his own brand this year shoved down your throat. Theres not many places to really talk about this stuff without a certain degree of bias. Just get a feel of the forum youre in, and then treat further discussions on it with a bit of suspicion. Once you pick up a few opinions outside the remits of that forum, youll get a more balanced idea of it all.

Hook ups always affect someones capacity for objectivity. Ask any doctor getting sent on luxury trips from any pharmaceutical company. Actually, dont bother. Theyll tell you what everyone else is saying here... of course theyre objective and of course they appreciate the hook up but it doesnt affect their judgement! (And thats why pharmaceuticals dont really have budgets for that type of thing. Its completely ineffective and a waste of effort since all doctors are too smart to fall for it). :/

But thats all by the by. Once you get a feel for a website youll start to balance the hype with cynical disregard. Neversummer make great boards, and i love my forces, my charlie slasher, my quiver killer and my coal beanies, and ill recommend them because i also have a bias on limited riding experience which just comes back to "well, i kinda liked it!". We aint none of us immune.

If you want to see if neversummer boards are great (or a piece of shit), the best thing you can probably do is tune out the forums and find out when they demo your end and check them out for yourself. Then again, the reason youre looking for a neversummer demo day is probably the hype on the forums. Swings and roundabouts.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:55 AM   #93 (permalink)
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No offense to anyone but this will just make anything said about NS look like advertising now. You can say this or that but thats how its gonna look. I dont care either way but my gut instinct is real bad on this one.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:35 AM   #94 (permalink)
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Wow! For me personally, I think it's awesome that a board company solicits feedback from riders and fosters word-of-mouth marketing.

As for myself, I bought an Infinity based on recommendations here. I wouldn't say I'm a fangirl, but I would buy NS again, and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it (but also point out its flaws).

A few years ago, there were fewer options for hybrid camber boards, and rocker boards had issues. But I think over the years, more manufacturers started making hybrid boards, and rocker boarders have gotten better and better. So, NS's advantages aren't so clear cut anymore, and there's many other snowboards that seem awesome.

Really, I don't hate any brand. It's not like anybody is mowing down forests full of indigenous tribal farmers or anything. I even have Burton stuff, and I LOVE Burton bindings, and appreciate the positive things they initially did for the sport.

NS makes good boards, they seem to be an honest, socially-conscious company. I don't see any reason to hate them just because they're popular. All things being equal, I'd rather see my money go to a US company too... but that hasn't stopped me from buying Arbor stuff (mass produced in Europe in a faceless factory, blah blah blah).
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:13 AM   #95 (permalink)
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I felt i was pretty fair. I didnt say that you wouldnt allow discussion on anything else, just that neversummer gets rammed down your throat here. And just remember, its not just me saying that, its not just me "accusing" you of that. "Its generated by your fellow forum members and riders" who have come here looking for advice and information and wondering why on earth every other thread and recommendation seems to be 'have you thought about neversummer?'

I didnt start this thread, its page 9 by the time i commented on it. My original comment was going to be similar i guess, but seeing that whole project thing was somewhat discouraging.

To be honest, your reply is rather ridiculous, i didnt call you names, i didnt single anyone out, hell i tried to be fair and make the point that bias exists in all of our recommendations and maybe we should accept that before going off the deep end. However, this site has for a long time been behind neversummer, just as EL has been behind capita/c3. The fact is that your relationship has altered to a much more formal and concrete one. Youd be daft to pretend otherwise. Why not just accept its changed and take responsibility and discuss it instead of attacking people for not sharing your opinion. You suggest youll somehow not promote neversummer over other brands? Well, time will be the judge of that, surely?

Look, ive no idea why youre so upset about this, your own site and your own forum wanted to ask you a question why theres so much neversummer hype on this forum, but instead of just saying "a lot of the members here have had a long standing relationship with them (read your own blurb from the aforementioned thread) and we've had a nice collaborative relationship for a few years", im getting some kind of personal attack because i used a phrase that rather accurately describes the actions of a great many of the people on this forum.

As an example, I just participated in a thread that you could fairly summarize as "my girlfriend doesnt like her neversummer, what the hell is wrong with her???" She'd ridden it on two different occasions, she didn't like it either time, and people convinced him to have her try it again! Insane. It wasnt like she didnt have her own preferences, it was clearly stated she liked her old board and she much preferred the demo board she used instead. She just didnt like that board. Its seriously crazy. And yet there's the poor dude being told to get her to try it again and that it "just takes a while to adjust", as if she has no idea what she could possibly want! I genuinely couldnt believe what i was reading here. Its important, and ill be making this point a lot. Im not accusing you or any of the other people on this program of telling her to stick with the neversummer. Im not even saying that the neversummer dudes on this forum told her to stick with the neversummer. Its just fellow forum users.

Just remember, im no one special. Im not in the industry. I dont have an agenda. Im just one of those "fellow forum member" who happens to disagree with your opinion (for that is what it is) that this association is going to be bias free. Im just someone who comes here looking for information on things like the new tech for 2014 and finds 14 pages of people arguing about whether neversummer graphics are good or not.

As for your other claims, im afraid youre not really the judge of those. Time will be, though. I look forward to the reviews crucifying R+C as an outmoded tech that delivers none of the playful looseness of rocker and none of the bite, energy and response of camber. Im sure they'll be there because you have what, 15 people all with their own opinions, riding styles, and preferences on what they like and what they choose to ride in their free time. So clearly not all of them will like, let alone LOVE R+C/vario. Im absolutely sure it wont be a bunch of reviews saying that these boards are all great boards! (with minor insignificant caveats). Because that would be massively unrealistically, right, and show nothing but complete bias on your behalf, right?

As i say, you dont get to make the decision on your own bias, the people reading your reviews do. And part of what will factor into that decision is the extremely close relationship between this site and neversummer youve now just gotten into, im afraid. You might not like this, and you might then needlessly lash out and attack the people who disagree with you by throwing out completely non-biased and objective language like "bitching and moaning" and "whiners", or calling them "childish" and telling them they are "full of shit", but theyre entitled to consider the matter suspect now that the relationship is so... intimate.

As for the big accusation that im suggesting there is an orchestrated bias. I certainly said no such thing. I suggested a bias had formed, that it was orchestrated is a complete straw man and an attempt to dismiss the point (as well as any other comments disagreeing with you) as being paranoid and absurd. Maybe a more accurate reading and explanation is in order, since it will help you make your case better if you attack my actual point and not the one you yourself created. I know what i wrote, it was clear and direct. I made no insinuation as to WHY the bias came about, i merely said there was one. Thus any attribution as to orchestration is a fiction created by your good self (Though one might stir the pot and ask why youre being so defensive?)

Maybe its your baby. Maybe it was your idea. Thats cool, but please reflect a little. Of COURSE this affiliation will have consequences on the perception of the neutrality of the information given on this site. You would have to be actually crazy to think it wont. Your whole drive shouldnt be to randomly abuse people because they disagree with you and then revert to name calling and straw men arguments to make your point (or worse, telling them to leave the site). Instead perhaps explain it rationally, explain the potential pitfalls of the closeness of you relationship on the sites neutrality objectivity, and then be open to the charge and recognise the possibility that it is right that we should be critical and that calling it into question is an appropriate and rational thing to do.

Again, im no hater, im just a normal forum user who has found the neversummer bias on this forum at times PERSONALLY unbearable. The 14 pages of people arguing about neversummers graphics was tedious and frustrating. It was equally frustrating to find that as soon as the neversummer stuff got moved, the 2014 thread ground to a halt.

And its important you get this point: Im not suggesting that the hype is orchestrated or that other brands are banned from being talked about, just as im not suggesting that it was that admin on this site suddenly restricted information on the 2014 thread causing it to limp on with about 1/4 of the previous momentum. These are straw men arguments. I am however suggesting that there is a massive amount of discussion on these forums, (orchestrated or otherwise) about neversummer that accurately charactarises the description of having "neversummer shoved down your throat". Indeed, you spend a great deal of time attacking that point, and then immediately agreeing with it by explaining away the fondness of neversummer on this site as just fellow forum users (ive used this a few times in this passage rather deliberately by the way) passing on the stoke because they LOVE THE BOARDS and want to recommend them. So we are both saying the same thing? I guess so.

You probably cant see the wood for the trees here, but your own arguments and your own claims are biting you in the rear end here dude. Im not asking you for a rethink, the die is cast, but try and accept that the decision to integrate neversummer into your site quite so heavily will have consequences and will affect the perception (and maybe the full) impartiality of the site as a source of genuine and unbiased information. This is not a ludicrous accusation when you tie yourself in so tightly with one brand... and also now have a section of the forum exclusively devoted to that brand and its product.

Last edited by ippy; 01-31-2013 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:35 AM   #96 (permalink)
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Fuck you can type bro! +1 to pretty much everything you said though. I like and respect most of those guys who are part of the "team" but if they wanted to influence me they had a better chance before they had their fingers in the pie so to speak. Seems the price of credability is exactly the same as the price of a ns board or two. Btw I only drink COCA COLA. Smooth COCA COLAafter a hard days riding is so refreshing!
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:56 AM   #97 (permalink)
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I used to be a Beaver Creek local and at first I didn't like NS cause everyone was riding them. Because of rocks on the bald spot, log sliding and general park thrashing I was averaging two boards a year, Burton, Sims, Option, etc. One of my fellow snowmakers was still ripping on a 10 year old NS and because of him I decided to give one a test spin as I was tired of always buying new boards. I tried the Premier and fell in love with the ride quality on the very first run, it was like nothing I have ever experienced before so I bought the board. Now, 10 years and over 700 days later, I still love my premier. It looks like it went to hell and back but it's still an awesome board. This year was the FIRST time in 10 years I actually bought a new board. (talk about saving money) I always went to a demo or two a year to try different boards (mostly other brands) but nothing ever came close to giving me the ride satisfaction or confidence that what ever board I was testing would get me out of sketchy situations like my premier has done over and over again. So this year I bought a Proto mostly cause I wanted something that was more playful and the proto is hella playful. Actually its a little bit too playful and not stable enough for me and some of the lines that I ride soooooooo, I'm back on my 10 year old premier and will save the Proto for when we start to teach my 2 year old son how to ski, then snowboard. I think if I was back in Beaver Creek the Proto would be awesome but here in the Alps its out of its element.
I prefer big lines, maching and then skating the mountain in mellower terrain and in that order. The proto is great for skating the mountain but not much else. I'm just being honest and I wish I would have been more honest with myself when I made my purchase cause I not a park rat anymore. I should have bought another Premier or Heritage or even a Raptor. Before this gets any longer... my point is, NS has built a reputation over the last 20 years for making bombproof boards that rides as good as they're built. What other boards out there can last as long as a NS? Just be honest with yourself and the riding you do 90% of the time before making a purchase and never buy a board based on hype or reviews especially when those reviews comes from people who ride a different style in different terrain.

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Yes I used to take my Premier through the park all the time and still do. And I still laugh at people who say its not a good deck for boardsliding.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:58 AM   #98 (permalink)
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Quick question. When the "design team" reports unbiased feedback back to NS, is or will that feedback be posted on the forum? I have never owned a NS board, but I am interested in the 2014 Proto. There had to be some neg/constructive feedback to add the "harmonic dampening" (I think that's what I read it stands for). So for anybody who owns or has had a chance to ride any model Proto, what didn't you like about it?
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:11 AM   #99 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crash77 View Post
Quick question. When the "design team" reports unbiased feedback back to NS, is or will that feedback be posted on the forum? I have never owned a NS board, but I am interested in the 2014 Proto. There had to be some neg/constructive feedback to add the "harmonic dampening" (I think that's what I read it stands for). So for anybody who owns or has had a chance to ride any model Proto, what didn't you like about it?
I didnt like the fact that the 2013 model just cant handle speed. Chatter is not a problem for me but when I'm bouncing all over the place like some cowboy on a bucking horse then thats when I have a problem. In order to get more stability you really have to dig that edge into the snow which slows you down. In powder I thought it was great until I took some bigger lines. Yes I know its an "all mountain" freestyle but for me "all mountain" also means big lines and not just cruising the mountain looking for every hit.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:27 AM   #100 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Neurotic please I love baiting your ass and watching you flip out because you have no proof in anything you say. Do some research on why Corbo is riding for Echelon now, might blow your mind. Still not sure how me going "hey talk to this brand they're looking for riders" even remotely benefits me.



Yeah cause an ad that went up middle of this month nearly 6 months after I finished all product reviews means I'm bought off. Fuck where's the Wi-Me award? Hmm. Oh shit better get on top of that now.



Yeah cause TR still lives here full time or even owns a house here. Couldn't be that Jason Kanes is an amazing board designer that has built countless decks I've liked riding.

Oh Extremo you fucking troglodyte. You're such a fun target to pick on and watch get bent out of shape. I could have a Burton ad on the site and you would say the same thing. Your small minded nature is hilarious and the fact that stuff I did a decade ago still has you upset shows how pathetic you are.

I must be doing something right if what I do so adversely effects you. Keep up the Internet hate people like you have helped create and sustain my career.
Wait, you baited me with an Echelon ad on your sight? That's fucking clever.

You don't benefit? Echelon's paying you ad time to keep your whack-ass blog alive. I tried to read through a couple of your reviews but I coulnd't get through all the grammatical errors. You may have been slightly afflicted with down syndrome. It's like fucking torture. You'd think you'd at least pass 9th grade english if you planned on writing professionally. Not like you've got anything objective to say anyways.

So your life-long man crush on TR has evolved into jumping on Kanes' dick? Still doing your spread-ass-insert-here routine huh? Hey gaiz look at my best snowboard list...wanna pay to me... gurgle gurgle gurgle...

Corbo's killing it and Mayo's on them, and he's a fucking legend out here. You think anything you say has anything to do with the legitimacy of the brands? You're out of your fucking mind. If anything their association with your phony whack-ass is going to hurt the brand.

You're not doing anything right...just being a hypocritical doucher. Pretty much what you've always been.

It's convienient that you hype other brands over NS and Lib and here you are 3 years ago shitting on them for patenting their RC profiles. I'm all for hyping the little guy when they're making good shit. But don't be a phony about it. You're just a fan boy. It's why you used to diss burton on SB.com. I'd fucking pay to get those transcripts.

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