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Old 01-31-2013, 10:20 AM   #111 (permalink)
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Did you know that there's a secret conspiracy by teenage boys to get into girls' pants? Yes, it's true. Every year, millions of teenage boys meet in an undisclosed location to review, refine and create put-out lines. From old faithfuls like "If you love me..." to more recent entries like "face down ass up", all lines are actually invented by a secret think tank that distributes them through the secret teenage boy newsletter "Getting Some".

If you don't believe me, here's a simple proof: Just watch any teenage boy, anywhere, any time, when he's with a girl. THEY'RE ALL USING THE SAME LINES! THEY'RE ALL USING THE SAME TECHNIQUES! How can this be coincidence? It MUST be a conspiracy!

Seriously folks, just because everyone's walking in the same direction doesn't mean there's a consipiracy. 'Conspiracy' has a very specific meaning, and requires secret conversations and strategy sessions at minimum. No one so far has come up with anything more than "they're all using the same lines" to "prove" the existance of a conspiracy.

Ultimately, there's a lot of NS fanboyism for the same reason there's a lot of Burton hateboyism. Because people pick up on commonly expressed attitudes and repeat them because it makes them sound like an insider. NS has a number of attributes that make it a natural for fanboyism:

1) The boards are consistently good (not BEST, just GOOD)
2) The graphics are consistently something that an adult wouldn't be embarrassed to be seen on.
3) They're "made in the USA", which let's face it, is important to a lot of people.

Invoking a conspiracy theory to explain this is just multiplying complexities unnecessarily. But feel free, as long as it doesn't get personal. This is after all a discussion forum.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:48 AM   #112 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donutz View Post
to more recent entries like "face down ass up"

This just made my day!
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:59 AM   #113 (permalink)
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Default Never Summer's...what's the story??

You're putting words in MY mouth now Ippy. I didn't say you were accusing us of anything. But when you make the assertions that you do in a debate about the design team, you INSINUATE that the design team members are acting in a manner that is highly biased. Yes, of course there will be some bias, but it's not as crazy as you think. A number of us have already told you guys numerous times that the possible bias is offset by these facts:

1) Some of us work in the Snowboard industry which means we have access to much more than free Never Summer. This fact is something you seem to ignore in all of your ranting.

2) Many of the Design team members were already customers of NS. Look at Triple8Sol. The guy owned multiple NS boards and I even remember him purchasing them for friends.

3) Never Summer has proven to you guys that they take feedback. Go look at the 2014 Never Summer thread. They changed the cobra graphics again this year due to forum feedback.

This is what they ultimately want. Good feedback bad or good. But of course there is marketing behind it as well. They are still a business after all. It's not like they are some random company coming here to buy people out. They aren't giving boards to random people. They picked the most vocal of us? Well of course they did. We are the ones that constantly review products and help with gear questions. But you see, there are quite a few on the team that barely even post and give advice even less. Do you seriously recognize all the names on the design team as being loud? I personally didn't even know who Shredler was. Fatbob isn't known for reviews on this forum.

So when you say they picked the loudest members, you're really only talking about Me, Snowolf, and Extremo. Triple8Sol too maybe...

Again, you guys are free to think whatever you want. Obviously we can't convince everyone. I have provided you with as much honest information as I could including copying and pasting an email from Vince.

And since you keep ignoring fact 1... Let me reiterate that NS is not the only product that I have access to for free. So tell me again how I can possibly be biased? Same goes for others on this team. Triple8, how can he possibly be biased just from this design team subject? He BOUGHT many NS boards prior to this. If he's biased, it's from making purchases out if his own pocket.

Another fact you ignored... This forum had plenty NS hype long before the design team that started with Wolf and Myself. You complain now because they included more members? Why? What's the point?

And please, stop insulting my intelligence. You've become quite condescending. No need for that nonsense.


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Last edited by Leo; 01-31-2013 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:05 AM   #114 (permalink)
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I was looking at NS during a recent board purchase. I decided on something else because they didn't have a model that appealed to me, but the quality and service reputation seems good.

Here's the one problem I have: My GF came on this form a couple months back to ask about board advice. She specifically said she was looking for a mainly cambered deck.

Somebody suggested a NS Lotus. It's like they didn't even read the thread or care, somebody was asking about a womens board and they just suggested a NS. I do see that in a lot of board suggestion threads too. I happen to like certain brands more than others, but I'll usually try to suggest a few different options from different brands.

It helps keep the fanboyism in check!
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:09 AM   #115 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CK93 View Post
I was actually getting ready to buy a Never Summer until I went to a demo they had at Keystone. I loved the idea of supporting a local company. Two things changed my mind. The first guy I dealt with was really cool. He took the time to explain their boards to me and got me set up for a demo. When I came back from a few runs, it totally changed. The people there were ignorant A$$holes. They acted like they were above everybody else. They were treating other people who where there like dirt. Rolling eyes, ignoring and treating them like there were stupid. It really turned me off to how they could be acting like that.

The second reason is a shirt one of the guys was wearing. All of the employees were wearing a NS shirt except one. He was wearing a shirt that was religion bashing. Now I have no issues with people wearing any shirt, but wear it where it is appropriate. While he was there, he is acting as an ambassador to the company. That tells me that the company condones that type of views because he was representing Never Summer.

I tried to contact NS to talk to them about my experience--I got the runaround and no results. If a company is going to treat potential customers like dirt, I will not support them. When people ask me about a good board company they should look into, I tell them about the people at NS and everyone of them have ended up not buying a NS. I continue to share my experience and find more people agree than not.

There are plenty of companies that make great boards, so it comes down to how well they treat other people and customers. At this point, I will never buy a NS solely on the ethics of their company.

My opinion anyway
I would almost bet you that the reps you are so unhappy about were from Christy's, Keystone sports, or one of the other shops there at the base of the mountain that sells never summer. Neversummer probably acquired them to help with the demo and they weren't smart enough to put their best foot forward. Still a poor reflection on NS though.

I have also owned Burton, Gnu, and K2 Products, and I have found my NS stuff to be more durable and performs well for me. A friend of mne just bought a lib tech, both of us have flow bindings so we switched rides for a couple hours. After this experience, I will stick with my SL. The lib tech didn't do anything bad. The SL just does it better.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:22 AM   #116 (permalink)
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My reply was kicked out when the thread got locked. Although posts since have taken a different direction since, I'm still going to add it for what it's worth:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CK93 View Post
Yeah if I could go back and delete my post--I would
I think what you were saying is that you found his attire to be unprofessional?

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Originally Posted by ARSENALFAN View Post
Why? I agree with your post. The guy shouldn't have been wearing a shirt like that while representing the company.
That's how I see it.

Like it or not, appearances MATTER in business. It doesn't so much matter (to me, at least) that the shirt was religious or not, it's that it wasn't professional. Would anyone feel secure in doing business with, say a lawyer, if they walked into the office for a consult to find him in a tank top and old jeans? Probably not so much. Sucks, but it's a valid reality.

As a business owner, I am acutely aware how my appearance influences not only potential clients, but existing clientele as well. Frankly, I could wear whatever I please. My business, my rules. And I am damn good at what I do.

However. I am sensitive to the fact that my clients and target market will base their perception of me AND my work based (in part) on my appearance. What I wear in my personal time is different from what I wear when representing my business. Granted, my industry is "stuffy" compared to the snowboarding industry but still.

Bottom line: I'm a walking advertisement for my company. I refuse to do a shotty ad.

Oh - and when I've been at industry related events OR helping out another professional - similar to a tent volunteer as mentioned in this thread - I still maintain my professional image. It's a representation of myself and the other pro.

As for the big announcement, as long as being a neversummer owner is not a requirement for being a member here, I don't have much of a problem with it I find it to be a bit odd atm, but we'll see how it goes.

I DO appreciate how companies like Rome, Union, WiredSport, Burton(bindings), and NS (vince) are active here on the forum, however
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:48 AM   #117 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poutanen View Post
I was looking at NS during a recent board purchase. I decided on something else because they didn't have a model that appealed to me, but the quality and service reputation seems good.

Here's the one problem I have: My GF came on this form a couple months back to ask about board advice. She specifically said she was looking for a mainly cambered deck.

Somebody suggested a NS Lotus. It's like they didn't even read the thread or care, somebody was asking about a womens board and they just suggested a NS. I do see that in a lot of board suggestion threads too. I happen to like certain brands more than others, but I'll usually try to suggest a few different options from different brands.

It helps keep the fanboyism in check!
The issue of people not actually reading a post before commenting is pretty much the SOP on most notice boards. In my experience that's where the fanboy stuff comes in. Fanboys are fanboys and that's just not going to change. Anyone able to get onto the interwebs ought to know the difference between a knowledgeable poster and a fanboy. And the person who suggested a Lotus when you were looking for a cambered deck just proves the point.


While I've heard positive things about NS from the people who are now on the design team (the thread of which I only first noticed today) I've honestly never taken note of any of them really pushing NS.

I ride a Proto CT because I'd heard of NS on this board and randomly found myself at a demo day. I'd never even heard of the board. Rode it, loved it. Bought it. Returned it. Bought the black one because, damn...

If anything the mods/admins putting up a thread specifically noting who is on the design team ought to address most of the concerns in this thread (rational or otherwise).

Were I a new member (as opposed to just being a noob) I have a place to find out who is on board (so to speak) with NS and I could then view their posts in that light.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:24 PM   #118 (permalink)
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You're putting words in MY mouth now Ippy. I didn't say you were accusing us of anything. But when you make the assertions that you do in a debate about the design team, you INSINUATE that the design team members are acting in a manner that is highly biased. Yes, of course there will be some bias, but it's not as crazy as you think. A number of us have already told you guys numerous times that the possible bias is offset by these facts:

1) Some of us work in the Snowboard industry which means we have access to much more than free Never Summer. This fact is something you seem to ignore in all of your ranting.

2) Many of the Design team members were already customers of NS. Look at Triple8Sol. The guy owned multiple NS boards and I even remember him purchasing them for friends.

3) Never Summer has proven to you guys that they take feedback. Go look at the 2014 Never Summer thread. They changed the cobra graphics again this year due to forum feedback.

This is what they ultimately want. Good feedback bad or good. But of course there is marketing behind it as well. They are still a business after all. It's not like they are some random company coming here to buy people out. They aren't giving boards to random people. They picked the most vocal of us? Well of course they did. We are the ones that constantly review products and help with gear questions. But you see, there are quite a few on the team that barely even post and give advice even less. Do you seriously recognize all the names on the design team as being loud? I personally didn't even know who Shredler was. Fatbob isn't known for reviews on this forum.

So when you say they picked the loudest members, you're really only talking about Me, Snowolf, and Extremo. Triple8Sol too maybe...

Again, you guys are free to think whatever you want. Obviously we can't convince everyone. I have provided you with as much honest information as I could including copying and pasting an email from Vince.

And since you keep ignoring fact 1... Let me reiterate that NS is not the only product that I have access to for free. So tell me again how I can possibly be biased? Same goes for others on this team. Triple8, how can he possibly be biased just from this design team subject? He BOUGHT many NS boards prior to this. If he's biased, it's from making purchases out if his own pocket.

Another fact you ignored... This forum had plenty NS hype long before the design team that started with Wolf and Myself. You complain now because they included more members? Why? What's the point?

And please, stop insulting my intelligence. You've become quite condescending. No need for that nonsense.


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Leo (or anyone) - the reason you didn't know who Shredler was is because she just joined. As did:

wassupeli
karkis
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That makes FOUR new sbf/NS design team members joining here during the recent time of Dec '12 and Jan '13. It does seem suspect when considered that way.
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:08 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EatRideSleep View Post
Leo (or anyone) - the reason you didn't know who Shredler was is because she just joined. As did:

wassupeli
karkis
Bear5001



That makes FOUR new sbf/NS design team members joining here during the recent time of Dec '12 and Jan '13. It does seem suspect when considered that way.
Why is that suspect?

They were recruited for their riding style, where they ride, and their experience. They aren't regular members here as you pointed out. Even in the short time they joined here, did they post much? Are they hyping NS? Are they showing heavy bias? That is what the debate is about right?

So again, why is this suspect? They'll post a review and that'll probably be the extent of it. They don't even post in our group thread.

People are overreacting.


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Old 01-31-2013, 01:13 PM   #120 (permalink)
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over reacting? I am pissed because I am not on the team... LOL I mean seriously, there has to be a spot for a 40 year old, slightly out of shape Indiana resident with a proclivity for testing his helmet and ass pads at least as much as he is standing on the board.
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