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Never Summer's...what's the story??

33K views 190 replies 64 participants last post by  ETM 
#1 ·
I hate to even ask the question, because I don't want to offend anyone...or accuse anyone of anything. But, there is a TON of talk around here about how awesome Never Summer boards are. It also seems that some of the members around here are pretty hooked in with NS. So, my question is this....are they really that great or are there a lot of people around here getting hooked up by NS or a combination of both??
 
#69 ·
Buying or not buying boards because of popularity or market share or popularity on this forum doesn't make any sense to me.

Does the board suit your riding style and help you enjoy snowboarding?

Buy a board based on as many reviews and opinions you can get or better still a demo.

I have ridden most of the major brands and tried an NS for the first time last year.

I personally have found the board (proto CT) to be excellent and suit my needs very well. I have had plenty of knocks from other riders and rocks etc and the durability is top notch.

I would love to try out an arbor coda and nitro team gullwing and may get the chance this year.
 
#73 ·
I'll chime in I guess.

I don't have ANY experience with other boards besides Never Summer and my first board, a price point Lamar I got for $88 at Dick's so my perspective is that of the new guy trying to progress and get into this while also having decent expendable income.

Maybe because of the forum or my relationship with some of the guys here but it seemed like it was really easy to dial in what NS board suited my needs based on the way they market their lineup. NS does a great job of "If you like to ride like this, then X is the board for that." Especially for people like me that knew what I wanted to ride like but didn't have access to demo a bunch of stuff.

I liked the small niche'ness of NS. I liked what I knew about the company. Like the post a while back, maybe it was the serendipity of their marketing strategy and me falling into the perfect demographic. In a market full of very similar options, these things helped justify one company over another for me. Is that good or bad, I don't know and kinda don't care.

What does matter is that in the end, I love my board and have been so happy with my purchase and support of NS. It's fun to ride.

It's helped me progress. How? Because I still have nasty habits and occasionally I should catch the hell out of an edge and bust my face but it doesn't happen. The RC profile helps keep me upright when I know I should have been toast and that confidence in my board helped me to push myself.

(Having said that, I will be taking lessons next season to clean up my faults and bad habits)

Is it all psychology? :dunno: All I know is that it works and I'm happy.

oh and since we're talking about it...

I did something funky to my board when I busted my back. I just discovered it last night. I sent an email to NS this evening and within an hour I had a personal phone call from Never Summer and an RA to get my board sent to them as soon as I can get it boxed up.

No idea what they'll do once they receive it, whether it's covered by the 3 year warranty or not but the fast response? That is seriously killer customer service.
 
#79 ·
I did something funky to my board when I busted my back. I just discovered it last night. I sent an email to NS this evening and within an hour I had a personal phone call from Never Summer and an RA to get my board sent to them as soon as I can get it boxed up.

No idea what they'll do once they receive it, whether it's covered by the 3 year warranty or not but the fast response? That is seriously killer customer service.
Wow, that seems the incredible compared to what my view of the company was. Hopefully they can continue to keep that level of service with everyone.

Before I went up to demo the boards, I was emailing them to get prices of boards. It always took days before I would get a response.
 
#77 ·
I have never ridden a NS board I have a feeling I will in the future. I really like that on their website there are certain reviews that link back to this forum. Not all the reviews are completely positive but they are honest. I like that honesty.

Most of the time from companies all you get is marketing hype but I think NS really just wants to get better and better at making boards. That said, I wish they would hire some different artists..... :(
 
#80 · (Edited)
For full disclosure.

Then there is always this :)

56538-never-summer-design-team.html

For 2013 Never Summer Industries has selected an elite design group from outside our organization. The mission of the team is to provide honest, detailed and comprehensive reviews on our 2013/14 snowboard models. To answer questions in a tactful and respectful way about the how the tech/design influence the boards performance, compare and contrast models to help people determine which board is right for them when they're considering our brand. An emphasis of the group is to help us with the design and development of new product, improve existing models and determine what riders are looking for from us.


Team Roster/Bio:

Scott a.k.a Snowolf: Pack Leader, Vancouver, WA
Scott has helped countless people further their snowboarding experience with his incredible passion and knowledge. From years as an AASI certified snowboard instructor at Mt. Hood Meadows, administrator of snowboardingforum.com, to forming his own backcountry guide service, backcountry splitboarding in Alaska or guiding groups to the summit Mt. Hood, Mt. Adams and Mt. St. Helens for classic descents. With a focus on big mountain and freeride snowboarding, Snowolf was instrumental on development of the Cobra with us and is a natural choice for the Prospector Split.

Leo a.k.a Leo: Team Captain, Sterling Heights, MI.
You all know him and love him it’s Leo! With over 5,000 posts Leo is a fixture of snowboardforum.com and mid-west snowboarding. Personally selected as one of Never Summer’s original on-line design team members by owner Tracey Canaday, Leo has been a part of the progression and development of our Park Series boards and the all mountain Proto. You’ll find Leo ripping everything, everywhere on our boards (in addition to a plethora of other brands), jibbing and bonkin, stylie methods to mobbing groomers and slashin around the woods. Whether it’s waist deep pow or bullet proof hardpack. Leo just rides.

Kelly a.k.a. Shredler: Whitefish, MT
Born and raised in the shadow of Mt. Hood it was easy for Kelly to gravitate toward snowsports. An AASI level 3 certified instructor she spent years teaching on her home mountain, a stint in Steamboat, before recently relocating in Whitefish, MT. She is currently the training director for the NW division, focusing on youth freestyle and women's clinics. Shredler’s riding style can be described as true all mountain, shredding steep and deep trees or hiking a feature in the park with a big smile on her face. With a playful element to it constantly zig zagging around the hill looking for something to jib or pop off of. Kelly is also an experienced backcountry ripper and is the logical choice to have on our women`s specific Raven split.

Wil a.k.a. Bear5001: Hood River, OR
Wil’s roots lie in Snoqualmie Pass where he started snowboarding at an early age. It was his families move to Big Sky, Montana where he developed a love for Big Mountain lines. Steeper the better! Bear5001 loves narrow chutes and tight trees are also right up there. However riding almost every day has made him appreciate every type of snowboarding and rides whatever is best that day. If you’re up in the PNW look for Wil on EDZ's and the arm at Baker or the King/Queen/Throne at Crystal. A current Level 3 instructor and training director for AASI-NW at Mt. Hood Meadows, Wil consistently rides over 100 days a year. Wil is the definition of all mountain rider; whether it`s a backside 7 in the park or charging a 50 degree chute on Mt. Baker, Wil not only rides it all, but expertly teaches others to do it as well.

Jason a.k.a. NWBoarder: Port Orchard, WA
Jason’s riding experience began in 1997, going through many different brands and models in the process. Last season was his first as an instructor for a private snowboard school. He did 4 on snow clinics and then taught a 6 week course and LOVED it! He’ll be teaching the course again this season. NWBoarder loves steep technical riding, but can blast a groomer with the best of them when necessary. Not a big time park guy, preferring to freestyle on natural terrain. Jason is also venturing into splitboarding the Washington Cascades. Jason, being fun, friendly and outgoing, epitomizes the essence of snowboarding.

Rob a.k.a. Mysticfalcon: Newport, VT
Mysticfalcon has ridden all over the Northeast but most of his time is spent in the trees at Jay Peak, Vt., looking for small cliffs to drop or logs to jib. Rob knows the area so well that he is the guide for the snowboardingforum.com east coast meet and Lyndon State College Ski & Ride Club. Where he is going to school to become a teacher so he can mold minds on more than just shredding.

Patrick a.k.a. Triple8sol: Sammamish, WA
Riding a wide array of Never Summer boards past and present, Patrick is the perfect person to give recommendations and comparisons on our models. He prefers steep, technical lines in the sidecountry but does a lap in the park here and there. Patrick is a well rounded rider who can ride anything in any condition with ease. He is very familiar with the pacific northwest from Mt. Bachelor to Mt. Baker.

Elias a.k.a. wassupeli: Anchorage, AK
A Yupik Eskimo Elias is at home in his native Alaska, especially on Alyeska Resort, where he’s an AASI Level 3 and the snowboard supervisor/lead trainer. Wassupeli rides everything…… Steep and deep AK blower to pipe/park and even races in the town league series. Elias is also an experienced Alaska backcountry rider with many descents in the Turnagain Pass area of the Chugach Range as well as Hatcher Pass in the Talkeetna Range. Elias came highly recommended by the director of Alyeska`s Mountain Leraning Center.

Max a.k.a. Dreampow: Kyoto, Japan
Living in Japan for the last 11 years, Max is a freelance translator and interpreter. This season he’ll be professionally guiding groups in the Nozawa onsen backcountry with an ex Japanese pro and a current coach. Max rides pow and lots of it! He does mix it up with some groomed runs and a few passes though the park, hitting mostly boxes and a very occasional rail with some board slides. Look for his photos, videos and reviews in places and pow most of us can only dream of.

Chris a.k.a. Extremo: Franklin, NH
Snowboarding it’s Extreme-o is an expert park rider on the east coast. A freestyle machine killin the parks at his home mountains of Gunstock and Waterville, NH. Chris also has some rails and boxes set up at home, so his time off the mountain is spent jibbing with friends. He’ll be testing and giving us feedback non-stop to constantly improve and progress our Park Series. Chris (Extremo) has been a icon member of Snowboardingforum.com and has been a source of great advice and encouragement in the coaching section when it comes to park riding. Chris` extensive experience with various brands of boards and bindings makes him a great choice to review and compare product.

Gary a.k.a. Killclimbz: Aurora, CO
Gary is a fixture in Colorado backcountry snowboarding, from his commitment and work with Friends of Berthoud Pass (FOBP) a grassroots collective of backcountry enthusiasts committed to preserving the legacy of public recreation at Berthoud Pass through safety, access and education. 90 % of Gary’s snowboarding is logged in the backcountry and he has been a mentor to many riders. Killclimbz has ridden our boards for years and is a driving force in the direction of our production splitboards. With our high peaks and long season Killclimbz is going to get plenty of time on our new Prospector Split.

Mark a.k.a. Marxkarkis: Revelstoke, British Columbia
Marxkarkis’s playground lies just off the famed powder highway and Rogers Pass. You’ll find Mark in this promised land giving Hi 5’s all around on those numerous powderiffic days. Having access to some of the most incredible terrain in the world allow Mark to really put a splitboard to the test on both ascent and descent. Mark tested the first prototype SL Split and you’ll find many of the tech features in our Prospector Split the direct result from his input. A powerful freerider he also loves shredding his Raptor in some of the most gnarly sidecountry at Kicking Horse. Heavily involved in the Canuck Splitboard Festival, Mark has helped raise thousands of dollars for the Canadian Avalanche Foundation and the Craig Kelly Memorial Scholarship Fund.

Peter a.k.a. fatbob: Nottingham, United Kingdom
Through his work as a moderator and reviewer on the UK snowboard forum goneboarding Never Summer 2013 Board Review | GONEboarding , producing videos on his fatbobfilms FATBOBfilms, and has had articles published on the online snowboard journal Snowpshere and a ‘Last Lift’ article published in December 2007’s issue of Whitelines. Peter continually shows his dedication to snowboarding. Not just confined to video producing, he is a qualified Level 2 Instructor with the British Association of Snowboard Instructors. He also teaches part time at the Snowdome . With a quick trip across the channel he is epic Alps local’s like Champéry, Switzerland, testing and analyzing snowboard equipment. Outside of snowboarding Peter is recently retired semi pro footballer took up the challenge of cycling a London to Paris ride in July 2012 on behalf of Christian Aid. The urge to give back to less fortunate apparently runs deep in Nottingham.

Vince Sanders-Product Development
Never Summer Industries
 
#92 ·
Holy crap! Thats just... um... i dont even know how to get my head around it. I always knew this place was a bit kool aid on neversummer, and i dont hate them, they make solid decks, but wow! :)

This is how it is though on any message board on any subject: A few of the more active guys who know their stuff tend to dictate the main drive of the conversation. If you come here, prepare to have neversummer shoved down your throat, and if you go to easyloungin, expect to have C3 or whatever core riders set up his own brand this year shoved down your throat. Theres not many places to really talk about this stuff without a certain degree of bias. Just get a feel of the forum youre in, and then treat further discussions on it with a bit of suspicion. Once you pick up a few opinions outside the remits of that forum, youll get a more balanced idea of it all.

Hook ups always affect someones capacity for objectivity. Ask any doctor getting sent on luxury trips from any pharmaceutical company. Actually, dont bother. Theyll tell you what everyone else is saying here... of course theyre objective and of course they appreciate the hook up but it doesnt affect their judgement! (And thats why pharmaceuticals dont really have budgets for that type of thing. Its completely ineffective and a waste of effort since all doctors are too smart to fall for it). :/

But thats all by the by. Once you get a feel for a website youll start to balance the hype with cynical disregard. Neversummer make great boards, and i love my forces, my charlie slasher, my quiver killer and my coal beanies, and ill recommend them because i also have a bias on limited riding experience which just comes back to "well, i kinda liked it!". We aint none of us immune.

If you want to see if neversummer boards are great (or a piece of shit), the best thing you can probably do is tune out the forums and find out when they demo your end and check them out for yourself. Then again, the reason youre looking for a neversummer demo day is probably the hype on the forums. Swings and roundabouts.
 
#88 ·
It's not smart on the individual's part. Has nothing to do with the company. Furthermore, demo tent workers usually aren't really that involved with the company. Some are volunteers even. You can't realistically expect a company to hunt this tent employee down and slap him on the wrist. That tent worker probably won't even care.

Honestly, I think you guys give too much power to such innocuous things. So what if he had a shirt that offends YOU? Why are you letting a shirt bother you to the point of putting a ban on an entire brand based off one tent employee's shirt? You are giving silly shirts and images like the Mervin one power over you.
 
#91 ·
I bought my Heritage back in the fall of 2010. I had no connection with the company or with anyone on the forum. I bought it because it was being offered for a good price, people had said good things about NS, and I was curious about the rocker/camber. Also because I'd outgrown my beginner board.

I like the Heritage. I make no bones about that. I don't claim it's the best board out there because I haven't owned enough boards to make that determination. But it's a good board, and lives up to any of the hype that I've read about it.

My next board will probably be an NS, but not definitely. Something else might trigger my curiousity or someone might just be selling something for killer cheap at the right time.
 
#94 ·
Wow! For me personally, I think it's awesome that a board company solicits feedback from riders and fosters word-of-mouth marketing.

As for myself, I bought an Infinity based on recommendations here. I wouldn't say I'm a fangirl, but I would buy NS again, and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it (but also point out its flaws).

A few years ago, there were fewer options for hybrid camber boards, and rocker boards had issues. But I think over the years, more manufacturers started making hybrid boards, and rocker boarders have gotten better and better. So, NS's advantages aren't so clear cut anymore, and there's many other snowboards that seem awesome.

Really, I don't hate any brand. It's not like anybody is mowing down forests full of indigenous tribal farmers or anything. I even have Burton stuff, and I LOVE Burton bindings, and appreciate the positive things they initially did for the sport.

NS makes good boards, they seem to be an honest, socially-conscious company. I don't see any reason to hate them just because they're popular. All things being equal, I'd rather see my money go to a US company too... but that hasn't stopped me from buying Arbor stuff (mass produced in Europe in a faceless factory, blah blah blah).
 
#95 · (Edited)
I felt i was pretty fair. I didnt say that you wouldnt allow discussion on anything else, just that neversummer gets rammed down your throat here. And just remember, its not just me saying that, its not just me "accusing" you of that. "Its generated by your fellow forum members and riders" who have come here looking for advice and information and wondering why on earth every other thread and recommendation seems to be 'have you thought about neversummer?'

I didnt start this thread, its page 9 by the time i commented on it. My original comment was going to be similar i guess, but seeing that whole project thing was somewhat discouraging.

To be honest, your reply is rather ridiculous, i didnt call you names, i didnt single anyone out, hell i tried to be fair and make the point that bias exists in all of our recommendations and maybe we should accept that before going off the deep end. However, this site has for a long time been behind neversummer, just as EL has been behind capita/c3. The fact is that your relationship has altered to a much more formal and concrete one. Youd be daft to pretend otherwise. Why not just accept its changed and take responsibility and discuss it instead of attacking people for not sharing your opinion. You suggest youll somehow not promote neversummer over other brands? Well, time will be the judge of that, surely?

Look, ive no idea why youre so upset about this, your own site and your own forum wanted to ask you a question why theres so much neversummer hype on this forum, but instead of just saying "a lot of the members here have had a long standing relationship with them (read your own blurb from the aforementioned thread) and we've had a nice collaborative relationship for a few years", im getting some kind of personal attack because i used a phrase that rather accurately describes the actions of a great many of the people on this forum.

As an example, I just participated in a thread that you could fairly summarize as "my girlfriend doesnt like her neversummer, what the hell is wrong with her???" She'd ridden it on two different occasions, she didn't like it either time, and people convinced him to have her try it again! Insane. It wasnt like she didnt have her own preferences, it was clearly stated she liked her old board and she much preferred the demo board she used instead. She just didnt like that board. Its seriously crazy. And yet there's the poor dude being told to get her to try it again and that it "just takes a while to adjust", as if she has no idea what she could possibly want! I genuinely couldnt believe what i was reading here. Its important, and ill be making this point a lot. Im not accusing you or any of the other people on this program of telling her to stick with the neversummer. Im not even saying that the neversummer dudes on this forum told her to stick with the neversummer. Its just fellow forum users.

Just remember, im no one special. Im not in the industry. I dont have an agenda. Im just one of those "fellow forum member" who happens to disagree with your opinion (for that is what it is) that this association is going to be bias free. Im just someone who comes here looking for information on things like the new tech for 2014 and finds 14 pages of people arguing about whether neversummer graphics are good or not.

As for your other claims, im afraid youre not really the judge of those. Time will be, though. I look forward to the reviews crucifying R+C as an outmoded tech that delivers none of the playful looseness of rocker and none of the bite, energy and response of camber. Im sure they'll be there because you have what, 15 people all with their own opinions, riding styles, and preferences on what they like and what they choose to ride in their free time. So clearly not all of them will like, let alone LOVE R+C/vario. Im absolutely sure it wont be a bunch of reviews saying that these boards are all great boards! (with minor insignificant caveats). Because that would be massively unrealistically, right, and show nothing but complete bias on your behalf, right?

As i say, you dont get to make the decision on your own bias, the people reading your reviews do. And part of what will factor into that decision is the extremely close relationship between this site and neversummer youve now just gotten into, im afraid. You might not like this, and you might then needlessly lash out and attack the people who disagree with you by throwing out completely non-biased and objective language like "bitching and moaning" and "whiners", or calling them "childish" and telling them they are "full of shit", but theyre entitled to consider the matter suspect now that the relationship is so... intimate.

As for the big accusation that im suggesting there is an orchestrated bias. I certainly said no such thing. I suggested a bias had formed, that it was orchestrated is a complete straw man and an attempt to dismiss the point (as well as any other comments disagreeing with you) as being paranoid and absurd. Maybe a more accurate reading and explanation is in order, since it will help you make your case better if you attack my actual point and not the one you yourself created. I know what i wrote, it was clear and direct. I made no insinuation as to WHY the bias came about, i merely said there was one. Thus any attribution as to orchestration is a fiction created by your good self (Though one might stir the pot and ask why youre being so defensive?)

Maybe its your baby. Maybe it was your idea. Thats cool, but please reflect a little. Of COURSE this affiliation will have consequences on the perception of the neutrality of the information given on this site. You would have to be actually crazy to think it wont. Your whole drive shouldnt be to randomly abuse people because they disagree with you and then revert to name calling and straw men arguments to make your point (or worse, telling them to leave the site). Instead perhaps explain it rationally, explain the potential pitfalls of the closeness of you relationship on the sites neutrality objectivity, and then be open to the charge and recognise the possibility that it is right that we should be critical and that calling it into question is an appropriate and rational thing to do.

Again, im no hater, im just a normal forum user who has found the neversummer bias on this forum at times PERSONALLY unbearable. The 14 pages of people arguing about neversummers graphics was tedious and frustrating. It was equally frustrating to find that as soon as the neversummer stuff got moved, the 2014 thread ground to a halt.

And its important you get this point: Im not suggesting that the hype is orchestrated or that other brands are banned from being talked about, just as im not suggesting that it was that admin on this site suddenly restricted information on the 2014 thread causing it to limp on with about 1/4 of the previous momentum. These are straw men arguments. I am however suggesting that there is a massive amount of discussion on these forums, (orchestrated or otherwise) about neversummer that accurately charactarises the description of having "neversummer shoved down your throat". Indeed, you spend a great deal of time attacking that point, and then immediately agreeing with it by explaining away the fondness of neversummer on this site as just fellow forum users (ive used this a few times in this passage rather deliberately by the way) passing on the stoke because they LOVE THE BOARDS and want to recommend them. So we are both saying the same thing? I guess so.

You probably cant see the wood for the trees here, but your own arguments and your own claims are biting you in the rear end here dude. Im not asking you for a rethink, the die is cast, but try and accept that the decision to integrate neversummer into your site quite so heavily will have consequences and will affect the perception (and maybe the full) impartiality of the site as a source of genuine and unbiased information. This is not a ludicrous accusation when you tie yourself in so tightly with one brand... and also now have a section of the forum exclusively devoted to that brand and its product.
 
#96 ·
Fuck you can type bro! +1 to pretty much everything you said though. I like and respect most of those guys who are part of the "team" but if they wanted to influence me they had a better chance before they had their fingers in the pie so to speak. Seems the price of credability is exactly the same as the price of a ns board or two. Btw I only drink COCA COLA. Smooth COCA COLAafter a hard days riding is so refreshing!
 
#97 · (Edited)
I used to be a Beaver Creek local and at first I didn't like NS cause everyone was riding them. Because of rocks on the bald spot, log sliding and general park thrashing I was averaging two boards a year, Burton, Sims, Option, etc. One of my fellow snowmakers was still ripping on a 10 year old NS and because of him I decided to give one a test spin as I was tired of always buying new boards. I tried the Premier and fell in love with the ride quality on the very first run, it was like nothing I have ever experienced before so I bought the board. Now, 10 years and over 700 days later, I still love my premier. It looks like it went to hell and back but it's still an awesome board. This year was the FIRST time in 10 years I actually bought a new board. (talk about saving money) I always went to a demo or two a year to try different boards (mostly other brands) but nothing ever came close to giving me the ride satisfaction or confidence that what ever board I was testing would get me out of sketchy situations like my premier has done over and over again. So this year I bought a Proto mostly cause I wanted something that was more playful and the proto is hella playful. Actually its a little bit too playful and not stable enough for me and some of the lines that I ride soooooooo, I'm back on my 10 year old premier and will save the Proto for when we start to teach my 2 year old son how to ski, then snowboard. I think if I was back in Beaver Creek the Proto would be awesome but here in the Alps its out of its element.
I prefer big lines, maching and then skating the mountain in mellower terrain and in that order. The proto is great for skating the mountain but not much else. I'm just being honest and I wish I would have been more honest with myself when I made my purchase cause I not a park rat anymore. I should have bought another Premier or Heritage or even a Raptor. Before this gets any longer... my point is, NS has built a reputation over the last 20 years for making bombproof boards that rides as good as they're built. What other boards out there can last as long as a NS? Just be honest with yourself and the riding you do 90% of the time before making a purchase and never buy a board based on hype or reviews especially when those reviews comes from people who ride a different style in different terrain.

P.S
Yes I used to take my Premier through the park all the time and still do. And I still laugh at people who say its not a good deck for boardsliding.
 
#98 ·
Quick question. When the "design team" reports unbiased feedback back to NS, is or will that feedback be posted on the forum? I have never owned a NS board, but I am interested in the 2014 Proto. There had to be some neg/constructive feedback to add the "harmonic dampening" (I think that's what I read it stands for). So for anybody who owns or has had a chance to ride any model Proto, what didn't you like about it?
 
#99 ·
I didnt like the fact that the 2013 model just cant handle speed. Chatter is not a problem for me but when I'm bouncing all over the place like some cowboy on a bucking horse then thats when I have a problem. In order to get more stability you really have to dig that edge into the snow which slows you down. In powder I thought it was great until I took some bigger lines. Yes I know its an "all mountain" freestyle but for me "all mountain" also means big lines and not just cruising the mountain looking for every hit.
 
#106 ·
MAJOR KUDOS to the OP! This has turned out to be one incredible thread...a little bit of conspiracy...a little bit of religion, some excellent back and forth...now can we have BA & Extremo sent to itheir own sub forum and watch em fight?

(My thoughts since everyone else got to air them)
They say Word of Mouth is the strongest form of advertisement...they say 1 bad review spreads a wild fire to at least 7 others which in turn could kill a company and its reputation...If something is not as advertised...good luck getting past your 2nd year of business.

The whole decision being made not to purchase a NS board based on a persons shirt....I agree with the statement that while at work..we absolutely represent our company by the way we handle ourselves however, I don't agree with the way that people have become SOOO ridiculously touchy! It goes back to the Bu//$#!+ with Chik Fil A...the founder himself has a PERSONAL belief that same sex marriage is wrong...and yet the whole gay community wants to boycott AMAZING chicken sandwiches and compromise tens of thousands jobs because he has his PERSONAL beliefs...

This forum is fantastic...I love everyone's feed back and I enjoy reading all the threads on How To, I love seeing peoples home videos, I love reading about all the new lines dropping each year, This forum definitely is doing what it was created to do...get a community with a common interest together. (This post makes me think about one of my original posts, "Why is Burton so hated here?" that fire was burning for 20 pages :) )
HAPPY POSTING ALL!:D
 
#107 ·
WAIT! One more thought....

I purchased my NS based on graphics ;-P I happen to love the graphics of Neversummer...their logo is pretty sick, and at the same time they look like a high end piece of brilliance....but I'm a simple guy..I also love the Jones Carbon and the Arbors with the plain wood look...Keep all that cartoonish sh*t away from me, I am a fan of Symmetry and timeless looks...not the hot fad of the moment :dunno:
 
#108 ·
This whole discussion has been built around the words "neversummer shoved down your throat". First SW tried to add in some kind of causal chain that im implying an orchestrated bias. When i showed you its not the case, but the forums, now youre trying to argue that secretly by the dint of posting it on a thread (a thread referring to the forums neversummer bias) that it was an easy insinuation to arrive at. Its not. Youre making it up. I told you what i said, ive clarified it. Twisting what i said to suit your own narrative is a way to DEFLECT the point, (as is asking me to provide evidence for a point i never in fact made). To be honest, the further this is going, the more uncomfortable its getting. You asked (and apparently welcome) reasonable debate on the matter, but ive been nothing but reasonable and yet keep having you guys try and put words in my mouth or make me say something so you can dismiss the point.

Now lets get to the next point of actual bias in the very act of tying yourselves so closely to Neversummer:

There is going to be a perceptual problem of serious bias in tying yourselves so directly with neversummer. Whether or not you think you wont personally be biased, is by the by. The proof is in the eating. Having a section of the forums completely devoted to one brand pretty much makes the case in itself to be honest, but its a cheap shot... fair... but cheap.

Your issue is how to address this in a rational, calm and reflective manner. Instead youre "orchestrating" (jsut so we're clear, this is a parodic use of the term), some kind of some kind of siege mentality. And lashing out because i had the temerity to not agree with you and was careful to articulate my points rationally and without abuse (i believe those were the terms of the discussion you guys set out in the thread announcing this?). Instead SW first built a straw man to argue against and then spent most of his post calling people who disagree with him a bunch of names. Now you, realising maybe that im right, and that i said no such thing, are trying to weedle back in this argument with some kind of Mrs Doyle line of argument: "come on, admit it! go on go on go on!"

Just accept theres an issue here. Maybe, i dunno, follow my lead and make an argument about bias and the general incapacity for the lack of bias, and offer assurances that you guys will do your best to make it fair and open and go out of your ways to not make this a massive defining feature of the site (which youve already shown isnt the case by the way with a) the announcement, b) the section on neversummer, (cf, the point on WHY people are looking to demo neversummer boards just as an FYI) and c) the mad defensiveness that anyone could even claim that this site had a long and established connection with neversummer... er... something about boards being designed and built in consultation with people on this site... from the very blurb on the announcement. Try not to get so worked up because i disagree that tying yourself into one brand somehow helps you prove your neutrality and impartiality.

I should stress, i choose my words very carefully, so before you leap on that last sentence again, you might want to re-read it. It doesnt mean that youll become more biased, it means it doesnt help your case that youll somehow become any less biased.

As for whether youll become MORE biased, i leave that in the hands of time and your ability to actually slag off the boards you were consulted about in the design process. I also expect Blauvelt to trash ride and complain that his berzerker is POS.

Really though, am i going mad? Is there none of you that actually grasps what im saying here and can articulate a balanced and thoughtful awareness of the issues this throws up in relation to the sites overriding objective (i assume) as a source of unbiased and fair information? Is no one capable of addressing this and acknowledging the complications whilst also articulating a rational and sound way of dealing with the nuance of the overriding issue? Im not being a jerk here. Theres an issue. The sites always been a bit neversummer intensive... as i say, i didnt start the thread, i contributed to it on page 9. And it was 9 pages of people saying "noooo! dont be silly!" You helped them design new boards, this has been a long standing relationship. Only now its formalized and much more in the open. Of course theres an issue. Of course you should have to defend against potential bias. Of course you should have to explain why and how its not going to impact your neutrality. Of course Neversummer should attempt to show they have no impact and will not set conditions.

And of course the people reading those reviews should be allowed to read them with a much sharper and more cynical eye than we might have a year ago when the relationship was a little more opaque. Its not a wild point. Its pretty humdrum to be honest.

If suddenly you guys were promoting Nitro thatd be fine. No one would bat an eyelid, in fact itd help offset a lot of the neversummer hype on these forums *lets not pretend your opinion is going to carry the same weight as joe blogs after all). Indeed you were promoting any other brand at all this wouldnt even be an issue. And i promise you this isnt hating on neversummer. I like their boards. But its the very brand thats had the most connections to this site in the last three or four years and its the very brand that seems to get the most noise on these forums. Now you have 15 or so of the loudest people on the site ready to talk all about neversummer. Come on now? Surely you can see that for a site professing its absolute neutrality, this doesnt help your case much. Whether it hurts it is to be decided, but its not helping it.
 
#109 · (Edited)
You raise a lot of legitimate concerns, and if I were coming in here as a part time member, or the casual lurker, I'd share them as well. But don't think these concerns weren't already considered throughout the conception of this 'design team' idea. Before you make blanket assumptions about the individuals on the team, why don't you wait for our reviews and determine how legitimate each of our opinions are on a case by case basis. Who knows, maybe I'll think one of my fellow team members is completely bullshitting too. I find it a little offensive that without knowing any of us you're assuming each of our opinions are going to be influenced by a blind allegiance to the brand. If you're on the same board that I'm reviewing I welcome your opinion in my discussion thread. If you think I'm bullshitting call me out. NS is looking for honesty. They've had their brand bashed for several different reasons and instead of whining about it they've listened to what people want out of them and improved upon it.
 
#111 ·
Did you know that there's a secret conspiracy by teenage boys to get into girls' pants? Yes, it's true. Every year, millions of teenage boys meet in an undisclosed location to review, refine and create put-out lines. From old faithfuls like "If you love me..." to more recent entries like "face down ass up", all lines are actually invented by a secret think tank that distributes them through the secret teenage boy newsletter "Getting Some".

If you don't believe me, here's a simple proof: Just watch any teenage boy, anywhere, any time, when he's with a girl. THEY'RE ALL USING THE SAME LINES! THEY'RE ALL USING THE SAME TECHNIQUES! How can this be coincidence? It MUST be a conspiracy!

Seriously folks, just because everyone's walking in the same direction doesn't mean there's a consipiracy. 'Conspiracy' has a very specific meaning, and requires secret conversations and strategy sessions at minimum. No one so far has come up with anything more than "they're all using the same lines" to "prove" the existance of a conspiracy.

Ultimately, there's a lot of NS fanboyism for the same reason there's a lot of Burton hateboyism. Because people pick up on commonly expressed attitudes and repeat them because it makes them sound like an insider. NS has a number of attributes that make it a natural for fanboyism:

1) The boards are consistently good (not BEST, just GOOD)
2) The graphics are consistently something that an adult wouldn't be embarrassed to be seen on.
3) They're "made in the USA", which let's face it, is important to a lot of people.

Invoking a conspiracy theory to explain this is just multiplying complexities unnecessarily. But feel free, as long as it doesn't get personal. This is after all a discussion forum.
 
#113 · (Edited)
You're putting words in MY mouth now Ippy. I didn't say you were accusing us of anything. But when you make the assertions that you do in a debate about the design team, you INSINUATE that the design team members are acting in a manner that is highly biased. Yes, of course there will be some bias, but it's not as crazy as you think. A number of us have already told you guys numerous times that the possible bias is offset by these facts:

1) Some of us work in the Snowboard industry which means we have access to much more than free Never Summer. This fact is something you seem to ignore in all of your ranting.

2) Many of the Design team members were already customers of NS. Look at Triple8Sol. The guy owned multiple NS boards and I even remember him purchasing them for friends.

3) Never Summer has proven to you guys that they take feedback. Go look at the 2014 Never Summer thread. They changed the cobra graphics again this year due to forum feedback.

This is what they ultimately want. Good feedback bad or good. But of course there is marketing behind it as well. They are still a business after all. It's not like they are some random company coming here to buy people out. They aren't giving boards to random people. They picked the most vocal of us? Well of course they did. We are the ones that constantly review products and help with gear questions. But you see, there are quite a few on the team that barely even post and give advice even less. Do you seriously recognize all the names on the design team as being loud? I personally didn't even know who Shredler was. Fatbob isn't known for reviews on this forum.

So when you say they picked the loudest members, you're really only talking about Me, Snowolf, and Extremo. Triple8Sol too maybe...

Again, you guys are free to think whatever you want. Obviously we can't convince everyone. I have provided you with as much honest information as I could including copying and pasting an email from Vince.

And since you keep ignoring fact 1... Let me reiterate that NS is not the only product that I have access to for free. So tell me again how I can possibly be biased? Same goes for others on this team. Triple8, how can he possibly be biased just from this design team subject? He BOUGHT many NS boards prior to this. If he's biased, it's from making purchases out if his own pocket.

Another fact you ignored... This forum had plenty NS hype long before the design team that started with Wolf and Myself. You complain now because they included more members? Why? What's the point?

And please, stop insulting my intelligence. You've become quite condescending. No need for that nonsense.


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#118 ·
You're putting words in MY mouth now Ippy. I didn't say you were accusing us of anything. But when you make the assertions that you do in a debate about the design team, you INSINUATE that the design team members are acting in a manner that is highly biased. Yes, of course there will be some bias, but it's not as crazy as you think. A number of us have already told you guys numerous times that the possible bias is offset by these facts:

1) Some of us work in the Snowboard industry which means we have access to much more than free Never Summer. This fact is something you seem to ignore in all of your ranting.

2) Many of the Design team members were already customers of NS. Look at Triple8Sol. The guy owned multiple NS boards and I even remember him purchasing them for friends.

3) Never Summer has proven to you guys that they take feedback. Go look at the 2014 Never Summer thread. They changed the cobra graphics again this year due to forum feedback.

This is what they ultimately want. Good feedback bad or good. But of course there is marketing behind it as well. They are still a business after all. It's not like they are some random company coming here to buy people out. They aren't giving boards to random people. They picked the most vocal of us? Well of course they did. We are the ones that constantly review products and help with gear questions. But you see, there are quite a few on the team that barely even post and give advice even less. Do you seriously recognize all the names on the design team as being loud? I personally didn't even know who Shredler was. Fatbob isn't known for reviews on this forum.

So when you say they picked the loudest members, you're really only talking about Me, Snowolf, and Extremo. Triple8Sol too maybe...

Again, you guys are free to think whatever you want. Obviously we can't convince everyone. I have provided you with as much honest information as I could including copying and pasting an email from Vince.

And since you keep ignoring fact 1... Let me reiterate that NS is not the only product that I have access to for free. So tell me again how I can possibly be biased? Same goes for others on this team. Triple8, how can he possibly be biased just from this design team subject? He BOUGHT many NS boards prior to this. If he's biased, it's from making purchases out if his own pocket.

Another fact you ignored... This forum had plenty NS hype long before the design team that started with Wolf and Myself. You complain now because they included more members? Why? What's the point?

And please, stop insulting my intelligence. You've become quite condescending. No need for that nonsense.


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Leo (or anyone) - the reason you didn't know who Shredler was is because she just joined. As did:

wassupeli
karkis
Bear5001



That makes FOUR new sbf/NS design team members joining here during the recent time of Dec '12 and Jan '13. It does seem suspect when considered that way.
 
#126 ·
ERS,

The business side of this is that never summer is probably paying vertical sports for that board.

Next they create a team to live in that board and generate content.

This is basically an old-school version of social marketing.

You see this all the time in the auto-forums.
If that is the case, I hope NS is paying VS for that level of exposure. If not, I'm going to recruit a Team for my business and assemble them here!

And if that is true, then call it what it is: Advertising.

Which is FINE. If it's marketing using an unbiased test team, design team, whatever it's fine. But call it what it is then if it's not what it appears to be.

I have to say the hostility in responses is NOT helping their cause imo.
 
#131 · (Edited)
And if that is true, then call it what it is: Advertising.

Which is FINE. If it's marketing using an unbiased test team, design team, whatever it's fine. But call it what it is then if it's not what it appears to be.

I have to say the hostility in responses is NOT helping their cause imo.
It's not advertising, it's exposure. Neversummer isn't asking me to sell their boards. They're asking me to give them, and you, an honest opinion. I can't speak for the other design team members, but that is what I plan on doing.

I would have never stepped foot on a Never Summer board because they have never appealed to me. But now they're making a solid effort to develop their park/freestyle boards the same way they've done with their big mountain stuff. My plan is to ride the boards, figure out what they need to get rid of, what they need to keep, and what they need to add, and I'll share that with everyone. My opinion doesn't trump anyones. If someone's got something to add about a product I'm on, anyone is welcome to chime in.
 
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