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Old 02-07-2013, 11:01 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Incorrectomundo Leo. Sintered base material is harder by nature, thus more durable. The benefits of extruded are lower cost, easier to repair, low maintenance. Extruded is great for jibbers as they are more likely to need a base repair, but not because it's more durable.

Extruded vs. Sintered - Become an Ace of Base - The-House.com
I said CAN be more durable in my second comment on this subject. Extruded bases are easier to work with. That's why Rome adds more durable properties to their Impact base.

I'm no expert, but my guess is that you can work with sintered bases to make them super durable, but I'm guessing that it will raise prices substantially.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:23 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I said CAN be more durable in my second comment on this subject. Extruded bases are easier to work with. That's why Rome adds more durable properties to their Impact base.

I'm no expert, but my guess is that you can work with sintered bases to make them super durable, but I'm guessing that it will raise prices substantially.

How CAN an extruded base be more durable than sintered? Serious questions, I'm curious. That is not my understanding or experience.

Sure you can add things to sintered bases to make them faster and more durable, but graphite and electra will drive costs up. Still doesn't change the fact that a sintered base (harder) is more durable than extruded (softer).
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:35 AM   #23 (permalink)
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How CAN an extruded base be more durable than sintered? Serious questions, I'm curious. That is not my understanding or experience.

Sure you can add things to sintered bases to make them faster and more durable, but graphite and electra will drive costs up. Still doesn't change the fact that a sintered base (harder) is more durable than extruded (softer).
They CAN be more durable when other tech is added to them. Did you read that link from Rome about their "Impact Bases"?

Again, I did state that it's likely you can do this with Sintered bases as well, but you and I both agree that this will cost everyone involved a pretty penny.

Also, again with the disclosure of me not being an engineer or anything...

Abrasion resistance does not necessarily equate to more impact resistance.

Seems Evo says things like graphite are normally added to sintered bases for increased durability.

Truth be told though, I think the difference is rather negligible. I've seen equal amounts of extruded vs sintered bases coming in for repairs. Other variables are involved obviously, but that's just what I'm seeing.

The main point is, sintered bases are in fact harder to repair. There's no bones about that.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:35 AM   #24 (permalink)
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When you melt ptex into an extruded base, it bonds better because well, that's practically how extruded bases are made.

When you pour that into a sintered base, it doesn't bond as well because sintered bases are made by grinding ptex.

So what this means is that while you can do a quick fix on a sintered by using the same ptex melting method, the chances of it popping out are much greater than on an extruded.

The proper method to repair a sintered base involves a good amount of base grinding and reworking.

But yea, you can certainly use the PTex method and just redo it if it pops out. You're more likely to find it popping out in colder conditions or another hit in that area.
Why do you think once dried that PTEX is chemically different in terms of bonding etc? Before you answer be aware I have a PhD in chemical engineering, so please cite your sources.
Edit: When I read that back over it sounded kinda harsh. If you've seen this happening a lot when you fix sintered bases I'd like to know. I'm just a casual snowboarder who happens to tune all my friends boards. Haven't noticed any difference in PTEX repairs for sintered vs. extruded as long as properly prepped.

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Old 02-07-2013, 11:51 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Why do you think once dried that PTEX is chemically different in terms of bonding etc? Before you answer be aware I have a PhD in chemical engineering, so please cite your sources.
First of all, argument from authority. I don't care if you're Einstein. You don't tell me to cite my sources when your only source is your PhD, which I have to take your word for (which I do). Chemical engineering... okay... do you work with PTex on snowboards? Do you know everything that goes into the process? Not saying you don't, just asking because your experience holds far more weight here than your academic credentials.

William Lane Craig has a PhD and that guy is a crack job.

Debate methods aside...

Ski and Snowboard Base Repair

This site explains you need something similar in hardness to the particular base. So a regular PTex candle doesn't work well with sintered bases. It also happens to answer my questions about abrasion resistance vs impact resistance

Gouge Repair With Ski Base repair Iron


Who knows if any of these people have a PhD in chemical engineering though
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:55 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Edit: When I read that back over it sounded kinda harsh. If you've seen this happening a lot when you fix sintered bases I'd like to know. I'm just a casual snowboarder who happens to tune all my friends boards. Haven't noticed any difference in PTEX repairs for sintered vs. extruded as long as properly prepped.
No harm no foul. Just a simple debate.

I've always respected you and a debate over base repair isn't going to change that.

I don't actually see more sintered bases needing repair on the same core shot areas. That's because we don't use normal PTex candles to fix them. I've seen them do complete base grinds to fix them.

Again, I'm not an expert so I don't really understand the process. I'm not a tech.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:56 AM   #27 (permalink)
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They CAN be more durable when other tech is added to them. Did you read that link from Rome about their "Impact Bases"?

Again, I did state that it's likely you can do this with Sintered bases as well, but you and I both agree that this will cost everyone involved a pretty penny.

Also, again with the disclosure of me not being an engineer or anything...

Abrasion resistance does not necessarily equate to more impact resistance.

Seems Evo says things like graphite are normally added to sintered bases for increased durability.

Truth be told though, I think the difference is rather negligible. I've seen equal amounts of extruded vs sintered bases coming in for repairs. Other variables are involved obviously, but that's just what I'm seeing.

The main point is, sintered bases are in fact harder to repair. There's no bones about that.

Leo, you're being kind of confusing. First you say that extruded is more durable, now your saying that it can be made more durable when "other tech" is added. Are you asserting that it's more durable than sintered?

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As for ease of repair, extruded bases are easier to repair. They are also more durable.

This is why most park specific boards are extruded rather than sintered.
The Rome base compounds link is also misleading.
"Constructed of the strongest abrasion-resistant compound, this advanced extruded technology with a high density structure holds up to a full season beating."

I think they may be stating that it's constructed of the most abrasion resistant extruded base? Not sure, but in general sintered is more abrasion resistant than extruded.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:59 AM   #28 (permalink)
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First of all, argument from authority. I don't care if you're Einstein. You don't tell me to cite my sources when your only source is your PhD, which I have to take your word for (which I do). Chemical engineering... okay... do you work with PTex on snowboards? Do you know everything that goes into the process? Not saying you don't, just asking because your experience holds far more weight here than your academic credentials.

William Lane Craig has a PhD and that guy is a crack job.

Debate methods aside...

Ski and Snowboard Base Repair

This site explains you need something similar in hardness to the particular base. So a regular PTex candle doesn't work well with sintered bases. It also happens to answer my questions about abrasion resistance vs impact resistance

Gouge Repair With Ski Base repair Iron


Who knows if any of these people have a PhD in chemical engineering though

So your own link proves my point pretty well:

"The advantages of sintered over extruded p-tex are 20-25% higher abrasion and impact resistance, a very low coefficient of friction, and the ability to absorb over 3 times more wax."
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:00 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Leo, you're being kind of confusing. First you say that extruded is more durable, now your saying that it can be made more durable when "other tech" is added. Are you asserting that it's more durable than sintered?
I'm not being confusing. I'm pointing out that I corrected myself by telling you what I said in my SECOND comment.

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Rome base compounds link is also misleading.
"Constructed of the strongest abrasion-resistant compound, this advanced extruded technology with a high density structure holds up to a full season beating."

I think they may be stating that it's constructed of the most abrasion resistant extruded base? Not sure, but in general sintered is more abrasion resistant than extruded.
There's nothing misleading about that. They added something to that specific base to increase durability. They just don't state WHAT they added.

Anyway, we have moved onto the issue with ease of repairs.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:01 PM   #30 (permalink)
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So your own link proves my point pretty well:

"The advantages of sintered over extruded p-tex are 20-25% higher abrasion and impact resistance, a very low coefficient of friction, and the ability to absorb over 3 times more wax."
Dude, did you not read what I said after that link?

"It also happens to answer my questions about abrasion resistance vs impact resistance"

Now stop trying to pick fights with me jerkface.
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