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Old 03-18-2013, 01:38 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CassMT View Post
i didnt mean highback angle...that was the wrong term, sorry..meant rotational angle setting, +25/+-12 for example

if you are saying that some toe drag is ok for carving, than we will have to agree to disagree
No, I am not talking about highback angle/forward lean. My point is that overhang (toe or heel) does not necessarily imply drag. Rather it takes considerable overhang and board angle/inclination before there is drag - as illustrated by the test that I suggested.
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:21 PM   #12 (permalink)
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gotcha hktrdr, ok...when you get up to size 13 (which i am), you can easily get to 'considerable' on anyhting less than a W board...i dont know what therossy mid-wide thing is, need to see actual numbers...if he was a 11-12 there might be a bit of a grey area...but

going back to the OP, i'm just going so say my opinion (imo)

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Originally Posted by oprime824 View Post
I Recently spent a week in Crested Butte, CO and rented boards for the week. The last few days I did the demo rental package and rode a 160 cm Rossi onemagtek and a 159 cm Rossi angus. I really liked them both but conditions were super snowy so I feel like I didn't get to really test them and see how well the board fit with me. I'm 6'4 and 200, I wear size 13 boots. I've seen online that with my
Size shoe I should be riding wide boards and I've noticed that rossignol only makes midwide as their widest size. Would size 13 to be big for a board that width? Im not sure if I should look to other brands that make wider boards for my next purchase. Any help would be awesome.

Thanks
i'm a 13 also, and have dealt with all this stuff for many years, not saying it's the black and white correct answer, but its an informed opinion:

find boots with the shortest size 13 profile you can, i love my 32Primes, but whatever works and are comfy, etc

find a wide board you like (dont know about the mid-wide as i said, its the numbers that count), ignore any stigma against wide board, esp. since you are just getting going, find a foot angle and binding position that is workable and minimizes the drag (on a W you can easily have zero drag in 13's, imo that is what you want)

learn how to carve that thing, and forget the rest.
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:28 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CassMT View Post
i didnt mean highback angle...that was the wrong term, sorry..meant rotational angle setting, +25/+-12 for example

if you are saying that some toe drag is ok for carving, than we will have to agree to disagree
As stated below, overhang does not equal drag. I think it is really important to get past this "minimizing drag" thing, and realize that the angles required for drag are substantial and most people take it too far when looking at reducing the amount of overhang. There are stigmas against wide boards for a reason, because many people think they need a wider board so there is NO overhang and that is simply not true. They end up getting a wider board than they actually need and the board is slow edge to edge and can be a bitch to turn, ESPECIALLY for a beginner. It is correct to look at the numbers, but it is also important to realize that an inch of overhang will never be a problem for anyone but the most skilled and precise carvers on steep terrain. A small amount of overhang places the areas of maximum foot pressure (ball of foot) directly over the edge or closer to it, thus increasing fine control and reducing the amount of pressure needed to get a particular result (turning.) If you cannot achieve this small amount of toe overhang in a situation where the board is too wide or the edges are at the very tips of the boot, you want to adjust the baseplate to move the binding closer to the toe and then add some highback lean. Moving your binding closer to the toe moves the ball of your foot closer to the edge, increasing toe edge control. You WILL have reduced feel/control on your heel edge by moving your heel further from the edge, so you want to increase highback lean to increase the ease and lessen the effort to get the board up on the heel edge.

I do the above when instructing, when beginners complain that it is hard to turn on to their toe side. I have ALWAYS seen an improvement after doing this binding adjustment and am usually met with very excited comments about how a simple binding alteration made snowboarding "so much easier."

For the OP, if you get a size 13 boot with shrinkage tech, you shouldn't really need to look at any board over a 26.3 ish cm waist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hktrdr View Post
No, I am not talking about highback angle/forward lean. My point is that overhang (toe or heel) does not necessarily imply drag. Rather it takes considerable overhang and board angle/inclination before there is drag - as illustrated by the test that I suggested.

Last edited by BigmountainVMD; 03-18-2013 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:56 PM   #14 (permalink)
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my opinion is that a beginner should start on the board that they most likely will be riding for their riding career, and get used to it from the getgo. and if you are 6'4, 200 and 13, it is mostly going to be a W

i also think the 'slow' edge to edge comment on a W, is also bogus...it comes down to the rider, and experience of course... this is the real (unreal) stigma against wides, not overhang/drag issue

just opinions from and opinionated person, haha...final opinion

good luck oprime824!
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:18 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The slow edge to edge comment is absolutely true. Whether or not you want to believe it, it is easier to tip a thinner board on edge than a wider one. It's physics bro... I shouldn't even have to bother proving it. Ask anyone who rides an alpine board (THIN) OR any skier switching from fat powder skis to thinner groomer carving skis. The skinny options are easier to turn and carve.

I went from a NS Proto CTX (wide) last season to a Proto CT (normal) this season with both boards within 1cm of each other. The heightened level of control and EASE of carving on the less wide model is astounding and is the ENTIRE reason why I switched boards. I could carve the crap out of any hill on the wide model, but the thinner one was simply easier and more of a pleasure to ride, because less effort/less input was required to turn and carve. It was much easier to do clean, carved, cross-under turns, which is a good test of edge to edge quickness. So there is some actual hands on research for you.

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Old 03-18-2013, 03:20 PM   #16 (permalink)
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what size boot?...if it's less that 13 you have the option of a narrow...remember we are not talking about you
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
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At size 13 there are plenty of options in the low 26.X cm range that would work without having to jump to a full on wide 26.8+ board.

Regardless of boot size, a more narrow board is generally faster edge to edge.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:12 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigmountainVMD View Post
As stated below, overhang does not equal drag. I think it is really important to get past this "minimizing drag" thing, and realize that the angles required for drag are substantial and most people take it too far when looking at reducing the amount of overhang. There are stigmas against wide boards for a reason, because many people think they need a wider board so there is NO overhang and that is simply not true. They end up getting a wider board than they actually need and the board is slow edge to edge and can be a bitch to turn, ESPECIALLY for a beginner. It is correct to look at the numbers, but it is also important to realize that an inch of overhang will never be a problem for anyone but the most skilled and precise carvers on steep terrain. A small amount of overhang places the areas of maximum foot pressure (ball of foot) directly over the edge or closer to it, thus increasing fine control and reducing the amount of pressure needed to get a particular result (turning.) If you cannot achieve this small amount of toe overhang in a situation where the board is too wide or the edges are at the very tips of the boot, you want to adjust the baseplate to move the binding closer to the toe and then add some highback lean. Moving your binding closer to the toe moves the ball of your foot closer to the edge, increasing toe edge control. You WILL have reduced feel/control on your heel edge by moving your heel further from the edge, so you want to increase highback lean to increase the ease and lessen the effort to get the board up on the heel edge.

I do the above when instructing, when beginners complain that it is hard to turn on to their toe side. I have ALWAYS seen an improvement after doing this binding adjustment and am usually met with very excited comments about how a simple binding alteration made snowboarding "so much easier."

For the OP, if you get a size 13 boot with shrinkage tech, you shouldn't really need to look at any board over a 26.3 ish cm waist.
That. It is important to understand that most riders should have some overhang - in fact, it is generally best to have a little overhang with bare feet, in which case there definitely will be overhang with boots. That is not only acceptable, but actually proper/preferable.

And wider board are indeed most certainly slower edge-to-edge.
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:59 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Wow alot of good info thanks everyone. Seems that a lot of people say its about binding board boot combo to determine the overhang. I'm just not sure how to calculate what the overhang would be from strictly building packages online and such. I'm new to equipment research, are there any 13's out there that have a good set up with the ideal overhang? Like I said I really like the rossi angus and onemagtek, I'm pretty sure they are both 26.4 cm widths. However if they are a little on the slim side for my size I obviously open to anything. Thanks again guys
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:15 AM   #20 (permalink)
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If they are 26.4's you will have no issue at all. I wear a 13 and my boards all fall in the 26.3-26.6 range. If toe/heel drag could cause a problem for me they wouldve. Dont go below 26.0 though. (i know its 3mm but it does make a difference)
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