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Old 04-02-2013, 01:35 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by flatlander View Post
Really? Sooo....you didn't say "not much." Alright then, pretty clear you're just looking for an argument... I definitely don't appreciate the indignant and presumptuous tone of your message, but I suppose I'll humor you with a reply anyways...


There's no question that *you said* there was "not much" difference in flex...which implies there is *some* difference.
No, it does not imply that at all. You are twisting my words - the "not much" was in the context of your initial post that suggested that there was a significant difference in stiffness between the SL and the Proto. But to be entirely clear, since it appears that you are looking for an argument, you can insert "if any" between "much" and "difference".

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Originally Posted by flatlander View Post
It's also been pretty well established in other threads around here that the proto seems to have a little more flex...possibly out of the box and definitely after a short 2 week break-in period.
No, that has not been established around here at all. People have mentioned the softening of the Proto after an initial break-in period. Where is the contrasting and/or comparison with the SL? In fact, people like Leo have stated that the flex is the same.
Anyway, I see that you are backtracking already to the Proto only having a "little" more flex.

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Originally Posted by flatlander View Post
Partially agree with you here... Firstly, there's a difference between excelling at and learning/improving a skill versus "being able to do it without issues." The former areas are exactly where I believe a true twin is useful no matter the skill level. Second, for me, the difference was definitely perceptible as a beginner. It made a noticeable difference during turn initiation and when nose buttering from switch. This was actually the very first trick I tackled as a beginner because I could more easily do a 180 without having to worry about a sloppy switch landing, and the nose butter helped me slingshot into the spin without the kind of body twist that can throw a beginner off balance when trying to initiate. Also, during my transition to a true twin, having the same responsiveness during turn initiation for both switch/regular really made it more enjoyable to cruise down an entire run in switch until I got comfortable enough to land a good size straight air comfortably.

I don't know any other way to say it other than to say.... I have a two boards. One board is a directional twin wide version of the SL, and the other is a true twin Capita. I've ridden them both very recently on consecutive days, and I'm barely not a beginner...some would say I still am; and guess what: I notice a difference. For a more advanced rider as you seem to be, maybe not so much... It seems like switch riding is a skill that people sort of settle into and leave where it is..for utility. Getting to the point where it's comfy enough to be useful is the hardest part, and I firmly believe a twin board is at least a minor and somewhat worthwhile benefit to that process.
All this verbiage does nothing to refute my original point that the "SL rides switch just fine."
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:49 PM   #12 (permalink)
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No, it does not imply that at all. You are twisting my words - the "not much" was in the context of your initial post...
Sorry dude, context does not change the literal meaning of your words. I didn't twist anything. We're gonna have to agree to disagree if you want to continue misrepresenting what you said.

Quote:
No, that has not been established around here at all. People have mentioned the softening of the Proto after an initial break-in period. Where is the contrasting and/or comparison with the SL? In fact, people like Leo have stated that the flex is the same.
Anyway, I see that you are backtracking already to the Proto only having a "little" more flex.
Regarding your take on what's been 'established' around here, fair enough... I may be reconsidering my interest in the proto if this is true. However, I think the extra width of my legacy along with the traditional camber would probably make my old legacy feel a little different...not to mention other design changes in the last 5 years. As far as my "backtracking", go back and read what I said. I never said how much, and EVERYTHING we're talking about is within the context of 'all-mountain freestyle' (per OP's request) which implies relatively small differences in flex ratings.

Quote:
All this verbiage does nothing to refute my original point that the "SL rides switch just fine."
You're quite correct, and it wasn't my intention to refute your point...only to provide account of first-hand experience that runs contrary to your opinion. The difference between you and me is that you're sharing an opinion and portend to know what everyone else is capable of perceiving. I'm sharing an experience based on my own recent history as a beginning snowboarder. Some of my experience may be imagined, but I leave it up the reader to take my account for what it is... You're just an opinion, and that's cool....everyone's got one... It's just...they all stink.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:55 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Sorry dude, context does not change the literal meaning of your words. I didn't twist anything. We're gonna have to agree to disagree if you want to continue misrepresenting what you said.



Regarding your take on what's been 'established' around here, fair enough... I may be reconsidering my interest in the proto if this is true. However, I think the extra width of my legacy along with the traditional camber would probably make my old legacy feel a little different...not to mention other design changes in the last 5 years. As far as my "backtracking", go back and read what I said. I never said how much, and EVERYTHING we're talking about is within the context of 'all-mountain freestyle' (per OP's request) which implies relatively small differences in flex ratings.



You're quite correct, and it wasn't my intention to refute your point...only to provide account of first-hand experience that runs contrary to your opinion. The difference between you and me is that you're sharing an opinion and portend to know what everyone else is capable of perceiving. I'm sharing an experience based on my own recent history as a beginning snowboarder. Some of my experience may be imagined, but I leave it up the reader to take my account for what it is... You're just an opinion, and that's cool....everyone's got one... It's just...they all stink.
So many words, so little content. You seem to keep this going just for the sake of having a debate. That is not helping the OP.
I have said my piece - plain for everybody to see. Unless you add anything of substance, I am done here.
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:02 AM   #14 (permalink)
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So many words, so little content. You seem to keep this going just for the sake of having a debate. That is not helping the OP.
I have said my piece - plain for everybody to see. Unless you add anything of substance, I am done here.
Wow, you're done? What's plain to see is that you attacked the guy for no good reason other than than he was trying to be helpful. Maybe the info wasn't a 100% accurate but, well, you're familiar with the internet right? The basic premise was sound and all you managed to achieve was a page of bitching like bitches. Which, well written as it was, will be of no use to the OP. At all.
Any skier looking for proof that snowboarding is no longer cool would only need to point at some of the posters here who's panties seem twisted tighter than a camel's sphincter in a sand storm. Not cool. Maybe get some pills something?
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:50 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Wow, you're done? What's plain to see is that you attacked the guy for no good reason other than than he was trying to be helpful. Maybe the info wasn't a 100% accurate but, well, you're familiar with the internet right? The basic premise was sound and all you managed to achieve was a page of bitching like bitches. Which, well written as it was, will be of no use to the OP. At all.
Any skier looking for proof that snowboarding is no longer cool would only need to point at some of the posters here who's panties seem twisted tighter than a camel's sphincter in a sand storm. Not cool. Maybe get some pills something?
Did you actually read the thread? You are barking up the wrong tree here. After all, it was me who called for a stop of the back and forth with flatlander because - as I mentioned - it did not further the discussion or help the OP.

Did I attack flatlander's original statements? Absolutely, because they were bullshit and he was providing incorrect information and bad advice to the OP.
Did I turn this into a bilateral bitch-fest? No way.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:31 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Did you actually read the thread? You are barking up the wrong tree here. After all, it was me who called for a stop of the back and forth with flatlander because - as I mentioned - it did not further the discussion or help the OP.

Did I attack flatlander's original statements? Absolutely, because they were bullshit and he was providing incorrect information and bad advice to the OP.
Did I turn this into a bilateral bitch-fest? No way.
It wasn't bullshit, and I've provided additional information in my subsequent posts to put context around my original statements. Even if it was bullshit as you suggest, my subsequent posts give the OP the context he needs to either accept or dismiss the info. Thanks to you for prompting me to elucidate my perspective for the OP... It's unfortunate that you decided to make this into an argument about who is right or wrong instead of a constructive conversation, and yep....you turned it into that. Call it a bi-lateral bitch-fest if you want, but it's really a one way street with all of the bitching on your side. All I've been doing is clarifying my position (right or wrong) for the benefit of anyone who reads the thread.

Last edited by flatlander; 04-03-2013 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:55 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Just chiming in my 2 cents here...

I attempted to ride switch my first year out and I'm still trying to get better at it. I've predominately ridden a Never Summer SL and tried my friends board which was a true twin, mid stiff board with no setback. I'll tell you right now... I felt a pretty big difference. His board was definitely a bit easier to do it on. I believe the setback has as much to do with making it a little more difficult turn as the shape of the board itself.

More advanced riders may find that the Never Summer SL rides switch perfectly, but let's not forget the OP is just starting out. Sometimes we forget what it's like to be a beginner...
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:08 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I have a NS SL and Proto and have ridden them back to back on the same day. The SL is noticably stiffer...feels like a 6 or 7 to me if a Proto is a 5. IMO - the SL is easy to ride switch...the Proto is more confidence inspiring switch.

To the OP: The SL and Proto are both great boards...you would be very happy with either of them. I have 8 boards and if I had to sell all and only keep one it would be a tough choice between my GNU Billy Goat and NS Proto. Both are just better than anything else I have ridden. Proto is better in the park and the goat is better on the glades and steeps. It would be a tough choice.

Last edited by d2cycles; 04-03-2013 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:16 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Hello there from one newb to another this was my first season also. I'm 5'9 205 and my first purchase was a camp 7 Valdez 159. So far I've been very happy with the board it's a all mountain and rides switch very well plus has a 3 year warranty and fairly cheap in price. Just another option to look at if ya want.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:25 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Hello there from one newb to another this was my first season also. I'm 5'9 205 and my first purchase was a camp 7 Valdez 159. So far I've been very happy with the board it's a all mountain and rides switch very well plus has a 3 year warranty and fairly cheap in price. Just another option to look at if ya want.
Whoa whoa...camp7 makes snowboards now? I have a couple of legendary 70's Camp7 sleeping bags that were handed down as a family heirloom... Apparently, the old 70's bags are still highly sought after by ultralight camping enthusiasts. I remember reading somewhere that the genius behind the original company sold it and moved on a looong time ago. Weird to think they're making snowboards now...

edit: oh, it's a lamar board. that figures...
edit2: the new camp7 company has no relation to the old one... http://www.oregonphotos.com/Alp-Sport1.html

Last edited by flatlander; 04-04-2013 at 11:08 AM.
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