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post #21 of 1208 (permalink) Old 12-10-2014, 04:31 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by larrytbull View Post
wired,
but according to chart i have a 27cm foot but no way I ever can fit in a 9. most snowboard boots I am a 10.5, and in flow I am a 10 Snug.
if i look at zappos link
for shoesize it puts me square in a 10

Shoe Size Conversion | Zappos.com Perhaps you need to account for width as well
Hi Larry,

You have hit on what we consider to be the core value of the tool. Please enter your 27 cm by using the slider on the sizer and then hit the "internet shoe size" tab. You will find that the USA Shoe size value changes to the size 10 that you had mentioned. Yet if you look inside your size 10.5 snowboard boots they will always have mondo 285 printed inside. This indicates by the definition of the mondopoint standard that the boot manufacturer is suggesting that boot for a foot length of 285 mm.

You mentioned Zappos and for good reason. They (Amazon) are the 820 lb gorilla in the shoe room. Their shoe chart does not relate to any standard. It is also used by other online shoe sellers and it is an entirely recent creation. We use those values on the "internet shoe size" tab on the sizer because they have become so vexing to the footwear business.

Here is the underlying fact. When the average person buys shoes online and has them shipped to them they are statistically much less likely to return a shoe for being too large than too small. Too small always goes back. This carries a significant expense to the retailer, especially ones that offer free return shipping. As that reality has become apparent we have seen the "correct sizes" on these charts go up and up.

The result? The average shoe size sold has skyrocketed in the last decade. Has the average foot size changed that much? Shoe and boot fitters will relate that it is now most common to have an average dimension size 8 foot pull out of an 11 shoe and so on.

It is this huge discrepancy that interests us. It is also important for new riders that are entering the buying process as they will find volumes of online advice suggesting that "shoe size" (which shoe size is never noted) or mondo size be used as the starting point for selection, but these values can be separated by 2 shoe sizes . This leads to a ridiculous and correctable amount of terribly fit boots being sold both in shop and online. This does concern us as poorly fit boots more than any other piece of gear will turn off a new rider and send them back to Playstation.

This is in no way to tell you that your boots don't fit.

It sounds like you have a wide foot. Is that the case?


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Last edited by Wiredsport; 12-10-2014 at 04:47 AM.
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post #22 of 1208 (permalink) Old 12-10-2014, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiredsport View Post
Hi Larry,

You have hit on what we consider to be the core value of the tool. Please enter your 27 cm by using the slider on the sizer and then hit the "internet shoe size" tab. You will find that the USA Shoe size value changes to the size 10 that you had mentioned. Yet if you look inside your size 10.5 snowboard boots they will always have mondo 285 printed inside. This indicates by the definition of the mondopoint standard that the boot manufacturer is suggesting that boot for a foot length of 285 mm.

You mentioned Zappos and for good reason. They (Amazon) are the 820 lb gorilla in the shoe room. Their shoe chart does not relate to any standard. It is also used by other online shoe sellers and it is an entirely recent creation. We use those values on the "internet shoe size" tab on the sizer because they have become so vexing to the footwear business.

Here is the underlying fact. When the average person buys shoes online and has them shipped to them they are statistically much less likely to return a shoe for being too large than too small. Too small always goes back. This carries a significant expense to the retailer, especially ones that offer free return shipping. As that reality has become apparent we have seen the "correct sizes" on these charts go up and up.

The result? The average shoe size sold has skyrocketed in the last decade. Has the average foot size changed that much? Shoe and boot fitters will relate that it is now most common to have an average dimension size 8 foot pull out of an 11 shoe and so on.

It is this huge discrepancy that interests us. It is also important for new riders that are entering the buying process as they will find volumes of online advice suggesting that "shoe size" (which shoe size is never noted) or mondo size be used as the starting point for selection, but these values can be separated by 2 shoe sizes . This leads to a ridiculous and correctable amount of terribly fit boots being sold both in shop and online. This does concern us as poorly fit boots more than any other piece of gear will turn off a new rider and send them back to Playstation.

This is in no way to tell you that your boots don't fit.

It sounds like you have a wide foot. Is that the case?
Yes I have a wide toe box on my feet.
My feet also touch the tip of the boot on my flows size 10
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post #23 of 1208 (permalink) Old 12-10-2014, 06:25 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by larrytbull View Post
Yes I have a wide toe box on my feet.
My feet also touch the tip of the boot on my flows size 10
Hi Larry,

Touching the end (actually, firm pressure - both toe and heel) will always be the case if you follow the manufacturer's suggested sizing for any boot brand. The liner and the footbed will both always be shorter than the suggested foot measurement which (of course) means that both toe and heel will be compressing into the compliant foam of the boot liner. This is especially true of brand new / unused boots.

The Mondopoint standard departs from all other standards in that the mondopoint size is not derived from either a finished internal boot measurement or a measurement of the last that was used to create the boot. Rather it is derived only from the foot measurement that the manufacturer is stating that it is designed to fit.

Extra Width (outside of the statistical norm) can be problematic because while mondopoint also defines a mm width (bummer - it is never provided on footwear) that width is based on a statistically average foot as taken from a (huge) database of feet. So, an extra wide foot has some tough decisions. Go with a snug fit lengthwise and custom fit for width - or - go with a larger than mondo length to achieve the extra corresponding width. There are benefits and downsides to both. There are a few (very few) Wide boot models available as well.
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Last edited by Wiredsport; 12-10-2014 at 06:27 AM.
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post #24 of 1208 (permalink) Old 01-11-2015, 10:41 AM
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This is fantastic.

I never agreed with Wired boot sizes, until i saw this guide and use "Internet Size". hahaha i'm bang on US11 internet size (foot lenght 27.5cm).

Mondo never agrees... i guess boot manufacturers are always running small compared to mondo....
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post #25 of 1208 (permalink) Old 01-11-2015, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by F1EA View Post
This is fantastic.

I never agreed with Wired boot sizes, until i saw this guide and use "Internet Size". hahaha i'm bang on US11 internet size (foot lenght 27.5cm).

Mondo never agrees... i guess boot manufacturers are always running small compared to mondo....
Hi F1EA,

It is not so much that they are running small to Mondo, it is that snowboard boots are designed to be worn with a much "tighter" fit than normal shoes (although there are exceptions where a boot will not meet the manufacturer's intentions). By the definition of Mondopoint the mm size that is printed on the boot is the manufacturer's note to you that this is the foot length that this boot size is designed to fit.


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post #26 of 1208 (permalink) Old 01-11-2015, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Wiredsport View Post
Hi F1EA,

It is not so much that they are running small to Mondo, it is that snowboard boots are designed to be worn with a much "tighter" fit than normal shoes (although there are exceptions where a boot will not meet the manufacturer's intentions). By the definition of Mondopoint the mm size that is printed on the boot is the manufacturer's note to you that this is the foot length that this boot size is designed to fit.
Ya but mondo puts me at US9.5 snowboard boot size... and 9.5 for me is unbearable. Not only small..... impossibly small, in ANY boot brand.
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post #27 of 1208 (permalink) Old 01-11-2015, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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Ya but mondo puts me at US9.5 snowboard boot size... and 9.5 for me is unbearable. Not only small..... impossibly small, in ANY boot brand.
Please pull out the insert of your boot, stand on it with your heel back in the heel recess and snap a shot down at your foot. Please also measure the insert.


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post #28 of 1208 (permalink) Old 01-11-2015, 11:43 AM
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Please pull out the insert of your boot, stand on it with your heel back in the heel recess and snap a shot down at your foot. Please also measure the insert.
Foot = 275 mm
Insert = US11 TM2



Boot fits perfect, firm pressure on toes; but it would be unbearably tight even at 0.5size smaller. I have thin calves (like I can wrap my fingers around it) and feet, but i get no heel lift at all, with C's in the liner.
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post #29 of 1208 (permalink) Old 01-11-2015, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
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Got it. That is a street shoe fit. You are happy so I will not push the point but a textbook fit will overhang the insert both toe and heel. This is always how boots are designed. That is what creates the intended pressure into the compliant materials of the boot.

We have many threads here where riders have made the switch from a fit similar to your photo and downsized to their mondo size to find increased performance, spiritual joy, and an overwhelming sense of inner peace by moving to the design fit.

STOKED that you are enjoying your setup. Ommmmmmm.
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post #30 of 1208 (permalink) Old 01-11-2015, 11:59 AM
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LOL
Really... half a size smaller and i'd die. In my case, the middle finger's the longest though, so maybe not perfectly obvious from this pic.

Maybe a different boot brand. I'll try other boots next time, just because i want to be less borderline on binding size. So i'll look into less reduced boots or just smaller profile so i can go M.
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