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Old 09-13-2012, 01:51 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hktrdr View Post
Everything I can see on the pix looks like the 2010-2011 version - highbacks, straps, color scheme, etc.
In that case there is another difference to the 2011-2012 (in addition to the ones you mentioned): A new baseplate - which was pretty significant, so far from "essentially the same".
'essentially the same' refers to the difference in super straps between 2011 and 2012.
Also, there isn't a new baseplate. He is selling the 2011 LATE RELEASE REFLEX model. In 2011, the regular cartels were not reflex. If you look at his photo you can see the reflex footbed.

Last edited by Supra; 09-13-2012 at 01:56 AM.
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Old 09-13-2012, 02:47 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supra View Post
'essentially the same' refers to the difference in super straps between 2011 and 2012.
Also, there isn't a new baseplate. He is selling the 2011 LATE RELEASE REFLEX model. In 2011, the regular cartels were not reflex. If you look at his photo you can see the reflex footbed.
Sorry, you are somewhat correct but not quite.
- 2010-11: Burton introduced the Re:flex Cartels that season. I cannot remember whether they were only a late season release, but I do not think so - I know somebody who got them for Christmas 2010. [Those seem to be the bindings the OP is selling]
- 2011-12: Burton then changed the highback (similar to the old Burton C60), etc. AND the baseplate on the Re:Flex Cartels. So the 2011-12 Re:Flex Cartels are substantially different from the 2010-11 ones (whether the latter ones were a late season release or not).
- 2012-13: There is another new highback (more solid looking - similar to the Malavita design) and more strap changes. [The current model - two generations newer than what the dude is selling]

Last edited by hktrdr; 09-13-2012 at 02:56 AM.
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Old 09-13-2012, 07:41 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hktrdr View Post
Sorry, you are somewhat correct but not quite.
- 2010-11: Burton introduced the Re:flex Cartels that season. I cannot remember whether they were only a late season release, but I do not think so - I know somebody who got them for Christmas 2010. [Those seem to be the bindings the OP is selling]
- 2011-12: Burton then changed the highback (similar to the old Burton C60), etc. AND the baseplate on the Re:Flex Cartels. So the 2011-12 Re:Flex Cartels are substantially different from the 2010-11 ones (whether the latter ones were a late season release or not).
- 2012-13: There is another new highback (more solid looking - similar to the Malavita design) and more strap changes. [The current model - two generations newer than what the dude is selling]
SIGH. I really don't know why you're going on so much about this.
1) they are a late release or as burton marketing puts it an early 2012 release. Not late season. Do you think Burton would release something in April??? Of course they make it to the stores in time for Christmas. These late releases typically get a low-key announcement in Oct/Nov and show up in stores in early Dec. Again, like I said before, I actually OWN these bindings. I'm not relying on some hazy memory of a friend having them at a certain time. Oh, and since you don't believe they are a late/early release, look in the 2011 Burton catalogue - they're not in there. Better yet, do a google search for 2011 Burton Cartel reflex.
2) I really don't understand where you're going with this new baseplate angle. You're talking about the old baseplate vs the reflex one right? Look at the bindings in the OP --- they are REFLEX!!!!!! Same as 2012 and same as 2013. Please don't tell me I need to take side by side photos of them for you to believe me.
3) Nobody is trying to say they are not from 2011. Of course they are two generations/years old
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:50 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Supra View Post
SIGH. I really don't know why you're going on so much about this.
1) they are a late release or as burton marketing puts it an early 2012 release. Not late season. Do you think Burton would release something in April??? Of course they make it to the stores in time for Christmas. These late releases typically get a low-key announcement in Oct/Nov and show up in stores in early Dec. Again, like I said before, I actually OWN these bindings. I'm not relying on some hazy memory of a friend having them at a certain time. Oh, and since you don't believe they are a late/early release, look in the 2011 Burton catalogue - they're not in there. Better yet, do a google search for 2011 Burton Cartel reflex.
No. Was wrong the first time you posted this and still is. Yes, they were an October/November release, but in 2010. That makes them the 2010-11 or 2011 generation product. They are by no means early releases of the 2011-2012 or 2012 generation product - which was, as I have repeatedly pointed out, different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supra View Post
2) I really don't understand where you're going with this new baseplate angle. You're talking about the old baseplate vs the reflex one right? Look at the bindings in the OP --- they are REFLEX!!!!!! Same as 2012 and same as 2013. Please don't tell me I need to take side by side photos of them for you to believe me.
No, I am not talking about 'old baseplate' vs. Re:flex baseplates, I am talking about different Re:flex. There were different Re:flex baseplates for the 2010-11 and the 2011-12 generations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supra View Post
3) Nobody is trying to say they are not from 2011. Of course they are two generations/years old
I am saying they might not be from 2011 - they are probably from 2010.

Last edited by hktrdr; 09-13-2012 at 09:53 PM.
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:05 AM   #15 (permalink)
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ok, we have a common start point. They were released in oct/nov 2010. This makes them 2010-2011 product, more commonly referred to as 2011 product. They were a late release, meaning they were announced after the regular lineup was released and so are not in the catalogue. Burton's marketing labeled them as an early 2012 release. see link:
Burton 2012 Cartel Re:Flex Bindings SNOW at Martini Northfield

it's all semantics. If you say they are from 2010, then that means they are from the 2009-2010 season, which they are not.

anyways, please tell me how exactly the re:flex baseplate changed?
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Old 09-14-2012, 03:46 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supra View Post
ok, we have a common start point. They were released in oct/nov 2010. This makes them 2010-2011 product, more commonly referred to as 2011 product. They were a late release, meaning they were announced after the regular lineup was released and so are not in the catalogue. Burton's marketing labeled them as an early 2012 release. see link:
Burton 2012 Cartel Re:Flex Bindings SNOW at Martini Northfield

it's all semantics. If you say they are from 2010, then that means they are from the 2009-2010 season, which they are not.
Yes, I think we are more or less on the same page.

The labeling of the generations is semantics - many people refer to the 2010-2011 gear as the 2011 version, others (fewer) as the 2010 one. I prefer to use the 2010-11 format to avoid the potential confusion.

Burton's marketing did not "labeled them as an early 2012 release" - none of the marketing materials our shops got from Burton said anything remotely like it.
The Martini product page is inaccurate/has the wrong picture (it is in fact showing the previous generation/2010-11 version). Martini is notorious for doing this - here is another example (product page for the 2013 Restricted Missions, but picture is for the 2012 model): Burton 2013 Restricted Mission Re:Flex Bindings SNOW Bindings Mens at Martini Northfield

Anyway, I hope we agree that the following statement by the OP is utter bullshit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamSR View Post
Sorry, they are 11-12 last years. But nothing has changed to my knowledge from last seasons, to this seasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supra View Post
anyways, please tell me how exactly the re:flex baseplate changed?
Sure, will try to find some pictures for you.
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:05 AM   #17 (permalink)
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agreed

however, Martini is correct. They label the 2011 late release cartels as 2012 early release.
Same with the mission reflex you linked. They were a late release last year and labeled 2013 early release. It's all marketing.

Here's a japanese page of last seasons 2013 early releases
BURTON - 2012 Early Release Model | DEPTER_NEWS

It just means you can get the new tech a year early.
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:33 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supra View Post
agreed

however, Martini is correct. They label the 2011 late release cartels as 2012 early release.
Same with the mission reflex you linked. They were a late release last year and labeled 2013 early release. It's all marketing.

Here's a japanese page of last seasons 2013 early releases
BURTON - 2012 Early Release Model | DEPTER_NEWS
So just to be clear, you are saying that:
- 2011 late release is the same as 2012 early release,
- which in turn is a different model to the 2012 (or more precisely 2011-2012) normal release?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supra View Post
It just means you can get the new tech a year early.
Not really, you are still getting old tech. For instance, the 2012 Early Release Cartels are not like the 2011-12 Cartels - different highbacks, different baseplate, different straps...

Last edited by hktrdr; 09-14-2012 at 06:37 AM.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:03 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hktrdr View Post
So just to be clear, you are saying that:
- 2011 late release is the same as 2012 early release,
- which in turn is a different model to the 2012 (or more precisely 2011-2012) normal release?
yes


Quote:
Originally Posted by hktrdr View Post
Not really, you are still getting old tech. For instance, the 2012 Early Release Cartels are not like the 2011-12 Cartels - different highbacks, different baseplate, different straps...
Well, in 2011 the only reflex bases were on the co2 and the prophecy, so in releasing a reflex cartel, it was a chance for people to get the reflex tech early in the cartel binding. It's old tech in hindsight, but in nov of 2010, being able to get the reflex base in the cartel was really exciting considering it was the equivalent of a future 2012 cartel.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:12 AM   #20 (permalink)
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you 2 know a lot about bindings
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