To wear or not to wear a Helm? - Page 22 - Snowboarding Forum

East§ide · 03-17-2013, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowolf

So many insults....why?

Here is the deal with this continual argument. The problem here is the preaching and the name calling. Some in the pro helmet camp take on an almost evangelic fervor about it that is just going to piss people off. It`s like the new born again Christian or new non smoker who seems to be on some mission to save the world. In every one of these threads that pop up over and over and over again, year after year after year after year, its always the same. The pro helmet evangilist resorts to calling everyone else dumb, stupid, idiot, moron, etc. This is NOT how you are going to win anyone over. In all of these arguments over the years I have not seen a case wear a non helmet person has called the helmet advocate names. This is just like the God freaks who get nasty and mean when the atheist does not agree with them on the subject of religion.

Being in the profession of snowsports, we talk a lot about this issue and quite frankly, almost everyone is sick and tired of the helmet preachers who really need to get over themselves and just stop it; its fucking annoying as hell. I don't think there is a single person out there that doesn't get the benefits of helmet use but this constant barrage of helmet, helmet, helmet, helmet gets fucking old. What the helmet evangelist doesn't seem to get is that by proselytizing non stop, they are actually creating Resistance to helmet use in the same way that in many cases, nagging a smoker to quit will actually make them more determined not to.

Think about it. Look at this thread as an example. In the 5 years of admining this forum, I cannot remember ever seeing a thread started by someone who doesn't wear a helmet, preaching the evils of helmet use or making fun of people wearing helmets. On the other hand we have on average 2 or 3 of these "wear your helmet" threads a year. After awhile it just gets fucking old.

What also gets old is the repeated anecdotal stories about how a helmet saved this person`s life or prevented that person`s concussion or death. Fact of the matter is that even without helmet use, skiing and riding is actually statistically a very safe sport. You are hundreds of times more likely to receive a head injury in the car crash on the way to or from the mountain.

If a person does not want to wear a helmet, it is no one else`s business and it is not anyone`s place to be preaching about it. As an adult, capable of my own risk assessment I can determine for myself whether I choose to wear or not wear a helmet and I don't need some do gooder acting like my personal nanny. Sorry, but the proselytizing is a form of butting into other people`s business and it is both intrusive and rude.

That is why people get testy over this constant preaching. We all get it. We all "should" be wearing a helmet. If we are not already doing so it is not because the helmet evangelists hasn't spread the good news; its because we made a choice not to and the preaching is only going to turn people off.

In all fairness SnoWolf , I've shown you immense respect I'm every thread in which we've communicated . I think I have every right to call someone out on being idiotic or making an idiotic statement. As I mentioned before, I really don't give a crap one way or the other if someone chooses to wear a helmet.. I'm a 27 year old adult who makes his own decisions and determined that whether I like the look and feel of a helmet or not, I feel that it is a simple and effective way to protect myself against avoidable head injury. If someone doesn't want to wear one, that is their perogative. What bothers me is the nonsensical and frankly idiotic reasonings behind it. To say that you (and I mean you in the general term) are above reproach and know your limits, so you don't need a helmet or any other number of frankly stupid arguments is the issue. As someone who puts alot of time and effort into promoting this sport, it's disappointing to me to hear that you think people who are pro-helmet take on some type of preaching role. Could it be that perhaps we want to set a better example for new riders coming into the sport ? Could it be that we have had enough close calls in our own lives that we feel it is prudent to share that information with others and hopefully they can avoid the same conclusion? Concussions, head injuries, etc. are a serious injury as recent medical studies have shown. Am I a dr or a scientist ? No, but I do understand common sense. I think that calling out someone's argument for or against helmets on the grounds of them making an idiotic statement is something is not only appropriate but necessary. You spend alot of time on this forum correcting misinformation - to say that someone is so good at snowboarding that they're immune to falling on their head is just stupid, and I think most would agree.
Also, as I mentioned, I've shown you a ton of respect and I DO respect you, but you set a precedent for personal attacks in the NS Fiberglass thread that is above and beyond what I've seen you call many people out for. I realize that as a moderator you can generally do what you want and I happen to be okay with that, but I think it's sort of self righteous to tell me that I'm being insulting by calling a duck a duck. I try not to be argumentative or rude without provocation and I don't post unless I feel that I can contribute in some way to the conversation.
I mean no disrespect by any of this, I just felt that I needed to say this. Not everyone will like what I have to say, but that is what a forum is for - discussion and debate and the sharing or knowledge ( and often misinformation.)

Like I said earlier in the thread and like Donutz agreed, we don't care if you choose to wear a helmet or not, but don't serve up some lame ass reason to everyone on a platter and not expect someone to call it out. I think you'd agree ?

Edit: one last thing , I didn't start this thread nor am I the only one who has tried to explain the benefits of wearing a helmet. I am simply a contributor to a topic that was started by someone else. If you'd like to PM me or talk in some way, ill bet you'd see that we are actually very much alike and on the same page.

honeycomb · 03-17-2013, 05:49 PM

I got my helmet last year, mainly because I wanted speakers in the ear pieces. I hate wearing earbuds and none of them fit my ears good, they're always slipping out. I've been boarding for 15years(damn...I'm getting old

) and never had any major injuries. Two weeks ago I got a mild concussion trying miller flips on a ~15' solid ice jump. First try went well, almost landed but under-rotated a bit and washed out. Second try I hit it with more speed, too much, threw it late and missed the hand drag completely, overshot the landing, over-rotated and whipped my head onto the ice. What happened after is a long story I might tell some other time, don't really remember any of it but the ski patrol and some locals at the hill filled me in, ended up at a hospital. To keep it short, I was supposed to fly out to St. Louis with my work for a trade show the next day. I missed that flight since I was released an hour before it was taking off, but I was able to fly out the next day and work the trade show. I had a headache for 3-4 days and for a week I was a bit out of it, it felt like I just got off a boat all day, just wobbly and dazed. Without a helmet I'm sure it would have been much worse, I might still be in the hospital.

**Donutz** · 03-17-2013, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by East§ide

I realize that as a moderator you can generally do what you want and I happen to be okay with that,

wait, i can do what I want???? OK, you are a chocolate bunny!

Just a point of clarification, Snowolf is an admin, although he does jump in when things get nuts. As a moderator I have more of a duty to try and be even-handed and not get involved -- which unfortunately I fail at regularly, being a passionate snowboarder.

snowklinger · 03-17-2013, 06:49 PM

this thread has way too many walls of text to even read.

this is how you do it fuckers:

the other day I was throat fucking this grateful gnargoyle when suddenly I had to go shred. The end.

East§ide · 03-17-2013, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donutz

wait, i can do what I want???? OK, you are a chocolate bunny!

Just a point of clarification, Snowolf is an admin, although he does jump in when things get nuts. As a moderator I have more of a duty to try and be even-handed and not get involved -- which unfortunately I fail at regularly, being a passionate snowboarder.

I'm Jewish and my gf got me chocolate bunnies for Easter since I'm deprived.. They're overrated lol. I'd rather be a box of Russel Stovers or something, if that's cool :-)

I did mean admin, I'm responding to everything on my iPhone so it's a pain to go back and double check stuff sometimes. I hope you guys can see where I'm coming from though.

I have and do enjoy being a member of this forum, and I'd like to continue.. I think when anyone feels passionately about something, for better or worse, it can take a personal swing. It isn't always necessary or intended, but still.. It happens. I've learned in 15 years of being on forums not to take the Internet too seriously and to never get butthurt by some nameless person on the other side of a keyboard

East§ide · 03-17-2013, 09:40 PM

Perhaps we ought to take this to PM or email, even phone if you'd prefer . I fully supported your dealing with that troll, and my post above yours in that thread basically echoed your sentiments exactly . The point was simply that as a forum member, it's incredibly difficult to determine what is and isn't appropriate as a response when it seems to change with each thread. I may have gone over the top with ETM, but I honestly feel that if a statement is idiotic, there's no reason not to say so. You're right, calling him an idiot may have been unnecessary, but a duck is a duck and a stupid statement is a stupid statement. I understand that as an admin and someone who has to moderate the forums you deal with a number of different circumstances , but I was and always am simply trying to contribute to a conversation. I don't go out of my way to attack someone, but I will also defend myself and my opinions. Also, I happen to find being called a helmet nazi incredibly offensive. Maybe as much or more so than you may find the word idiot offensive. Again, I don't expect you to, but if you took the time to talk to me personally, you may see that I am just being honest and thoughtful. I play devils advocate to provoke discussion , not argument. Some people take offense to that. That is their issue, not mine. You did ask me to tone down using the word idiot in reference to a person and I did, however I think calling something idiotic is in an entirely different context . I don't want to argue about this anymore or have any bad blood. As I mentioned earlier, I support and respect your opinions and the work you do... I wasn't calling you out because I don't agree, I was just saying that I'm clearly not a troll and that the way that thread ended made it unclear to me what is and isn't acceptable. I apologize if you took that as a personal attack as it wasn't intended as such .

I hope that we can let this argument die and that you and I can move forward from this. I enjoy this forum immensely and have learned alot from it, mostly from your posts.

(Btw, I'm Jewish and while the word nazi may not offend you , it does offend me to be caled a helmet nazi.. Rather than report the post and complain, I simply take it and spin it. We all handle things differently.)

poutanen · 03-17-2013, 10:51 PM

There's only ONE way to settle this debate...

Sorry it's a repost:

EastCoastChris · 03-18-2013, 12:18 AM

I saw somewhere (Scientific American...NIH some other laymen's publication? ) that a meta study was recently published examining whether increased helmet use had any correlation with or causal relationship to increased injury rates related to increased risk taking behaviors. The meta study concluded no relationship.

I didn't read any more than the article on the abstract. Nor can I tell you about any of the populations studied in the individual studies reviewed. I just know I read it somewheres. I am in health stats but not public health or populational control. So this isnt exactly my bag. But I'm satisfied that research has been done on this issue. And I'm fairly confident that risks of helmets are negligable at best.

East§ide · 03-18-2013, 12:21 AM

Snowolf, I appreciate your reply and would rather take this to PMs. There's things I'd like to say privately and I think that at this point your point and mine have both been made. Let me know if you're okay with this.

snowklinger · 03-18-2013, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowolf

Wait! Where is her helmet????

i has a little one she can use.

03-17-2013, 06:49 PM	#214 (permalink)
snowklinger Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: fuck boulder Posts: 2,804	this thread has way too many walls of text to even read. this is how you do it fuckers: the other day I was throat fucking this grateful gnargoyle when suddenly I had to go shred. The end. __________________ is it late october yet?

03-17-2013, 09:40 PM	#216 (permalink)
East§ide Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 807 Blog Entries: 1	Perhaps we ought to take this to PM or email, even phone if you'd prefer . I fully supported your dealing with that troll, and my post above yours in that thread basically echoed your sentiments exactly . The point was simply that as a forum member, it's incredibly difficult to determine what is and isn't appropriate as a response when it seems to change with each thread. I may have gone over the top with ETM, but I honestly feel that if a statement is idiotic, there's no reason not to say so. You're right, calling him an idiot may have been unnecessary, but a duck is a duck and a stupid statement is a stupid statement. I understand that as an admin and someone who has to moderate the forums you deal with a number of different circumstances , but I was and always am simply trying to contribute to a conversation. I don't go out of my way to attack someone, but I will also defend myself and my opinions. Also, I happen to find being called a helmet nazi incredibly offensive. Maybe as much or more so than you may find the word idiot offensive. Again, I don't expect you to, but if you took the time to talk to me personally, you may see that I am just being honest and thoughtful. I play devils advocate to provoke discussion , not argument. Some people take offense to that. That is their issue, not mine. You did ask me to tone down using the word idiot in reference to a person and I did, however I think calling something idiotic is in an entirely different context . I don't want to argue about this anymore or have any bad blood. As I mentioned earlier, I support and respect your opinions and the work you do... I wasn't calling you out because I don't agree, I was just saying that I'm clearly not a troll and that the way that thread ended made it unclear to me what is and isn't acceptable. I apologize if you took that as a personal attack as it wasn't intended as such . I hope that we can let this argument die and that you and I can move forward from this. I enjoy this forum immensely and have learned alot from it, mostly from your posts. (Btw, I'm Jewish and while the word nazi may not offend you , it does offend me to be caled a helmet nazi.. Rather than report the post and complain, I simply take it and spin it. We all handle things differently.) __________________ Never Summer Evo 153/Restricted ReFlex Cartel Gnu Danny Kass 156 BTX Last edited by East§ide; 03-17-2013 at 09:47 PM.

03-18-2013, 12:18 AM	#218 (permalink)
EastCoastChris -PREMIUM MEMBER- Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: NYC Posts: 116	I saw somewhere (Scientific American...NIH some other laymen's publication? ) that a meta study was recently published examining whether increased helmet use had any correlation with or causal relationship to increased injury rates related to increased risk taking behaviors. The meta study concluded no relationship. I didn't read any more than the article on the abstract. Nor can I tell you about any of the populations studied in the individual studies reviewed. I just know I read it somewheres. I am in health stats but not public health or populational control. So this isnt exactly my bag. But I'm satisfied that research has been done on this issue. And I'm fairly confident that risks of helmets are negligable at best. __________________ Home is the One Big Mother... Sugarloaf USA!

03-18-2013, 12:21 AM	#219 (permalink)
East§ide Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 807 Blog Entries: 1	Snowolf, I appreciate your reply and would rather take this to PMs. There's things I'd like to say privately and I think that at this point your point and mine have both been made. Let me know if you're okay with this. __________________ Never Summer Evo 153/Restricted ReFlex Cartel Gnu Danny Kass 156 BTX

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03-17-2013, 05:49 PM	#212 (permalink)
honeycomb It ain`t easy being steezy Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: ohio Posts: 197	I got my helmet last year, mainly because I wanted speakers in the ear pieces. I hate wearing earbuds and none of them fit my ears good, they're always slipping out. I've been boarding for 15years(damn...I'm getting old ) and never had any major injuries. Two weeks ago I got a mild concussion trying miller flips on a ~15' solid ice jump. First try went well, almost landed but under-rotated a bit and washed out. Second try I hit it with more speed, too much, threw it late and missed the hand drag completely, overshot the landing, over-rotated and whipped my head onto the ice. What happened after is a long story I might tell some other time, don't really remember any of it but the ski patrol and some locals at the hill filled me in, ended up at a hospital. To keep it short, I was supposed to fly out to St. Louis with my work for a trade show the next day. I missed that flight since I was released an hour before it was taking off, but I was able to fly out the next day and work the trade show. I had a headache for 3-4 days and for a week I was a bit out of it, it felt like I just got off a boat all day, just wobbly and dazed. Without a helmet I'm sure it would have been much worse, I might still be in the hospital.

03-17-2013, 10:51 PM	#217 (permalink)
poutanen Resident Creep-o-saurus Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 3,464	There's only ONE way to settle this debate... Sorry it's a repost: