To wear or not to wear a Helm? - Page 23 - Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:55 AM   #221 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by EastCoastChris View Post
I saw somewhere (Scientific American...NIH some other laymen's publication? ) that a meta study was recently published examining whether increased helmet use had any correlation with or causal relationship to increased injury rates related to increased risk taking behaviors. The meta study concluded no relationship.
I certainly ride faster/more aggressive on hard pack/icy stuff since using a helmet. If it increases risk is debatable, since being more relaxed/not tensing up in shitty conditions improves control.
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:27 AM   #222 (permalink)
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Default Re: To wear or not to wear a Helm?

In Norway we are pretty good at wearing helmets, old and young, experienced and novice, one plank or two, from the park kid landing 25'ers with ease to the dad on the bunny hill putting his 4yr old on a pair of skis or snowboard for the first time.

we get a few die hards, 60yr old on their telemarks with pilot sun glasses and Norwegian wool knit sweater on to the once almost pro mother of three bombing the mountain on her slaloms as many times as she can before her Easter holiday is over.

Point is helmets are cool, and if your not wearing one then you either know your craft very well and are taking a calculated risk or think your better then you actually are and are horrible at counting the odds that are stacked against you...
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:08 AM   #223 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
Eastside,

You and anyone on this forum can PM anytime you want about anything.

I am not picking on you here per se but I was trying to deal with this on the road with an Iphone and just didn't have the ability to deal with all of your points. I am address this publicly because it is at the crux of my extreme frustration with these helmet threads and I will go into that next post.



For really not giving a crap, you sure are passionate about this. You have a "right" to have an opinion and to voice it yes. It has never been about your opinion, it has been about the delivery and you do NOT have a right to use any tone you feel like. That has been what I have been trying to tell everyone involved. This is not open for debate any longer. No one is going to be allowed to call people stupid, idiot or any other name simply because they hold an opinion that you fell is stupid or idiotic. You seem like a pretty sharp guy, you should have no problem finding a way to get your point across without being a dick to people. This is no longer just a friendly request nor is it meant to single you out this goes for everyone. No more insults and name calling period.





You need to learn way more about me and what I have said even in this thread. In the next post, I will direct you and others to specific posts wear I have advocated proper fitting helmets. You are also grossly misrepresenting what I have said here. I have clearly in multiple helmet threads thread over six years clearly stated that there is a HUGE difference between a helmet proponent and a" helmet nazi" or "helmet evangelical". There is a HUGE difference between offering up advice and preaching. I know you are smart enough to understand this. You are deliberately obfuscating here to bolster your argument and I am not buying it. And for your information, when I coach kids, I wear my helmet to "set a good example" even though we are not required to by our resort. Again, you need to get to know someone before jumping to conclusions.




Again though, It isn't the content, its your delivery that is the problem. It is perfectly acceptable to "correct misinformation" and I do it all of the time but there is a huge difference between this and preaching or nagging. Put the information out there, when able back it up with some sources (very helpful but not always necessary) and leave it at that. I know you have heard the saying that you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink. Same thing here. You did your "duty", you put the information out, now leave it be and quit preaching. That is all people are saying. The problem is and it was said in another thread, when you keep on, it comes across as having to "win" the argument at all costs.




Don`t worry, you are in no danger of anything yet. I can even accept that you don't mean to disrespect people but you have to understand that it does not come across that way when you call someone an idiot. No one is going to take kindly to that. It starts fights and once you say that, nothing you say after will even register with the person so you sabotaged everything you claim to be wanting to accomplished but your delivery.

Like I said, you are still cool with the admin and mod team right now. You are just kind of the catalyst that has brought this entire helmet issue back to the forefront again and we are looking at making some changes about how these topics will be handled in the future because in six years, every single helmet thread has ended in a shit show. So again, you are not being singled out even though it seems like it. Plenty before you have had issues and we have banned many people for going apeshit over helmets.

Feel free to PM with any questions. Not pissed at you in any way, just exasperated with this entire subject.
Thanks SnoWolf, I understand your points and will keep them in mind for future reference. I guess too many years on forums has made me respond in certain ways that I shouldn't.

Here's my response to this thread :

Hey guys I wear a helmet because I hit my head a few times and remembered the story about Liam Neeson's wife dying and figured it wasn't worth the risk. It doesn't bother me much to wear it once I got used to it. To each their own. :-)
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:59 AM   #224 (permalink)
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Driving is not more dangerous than snow sports and the "by particpant" metric is a rediculous metric. You may ride 5-10 miles a day max. 90 minutes of actually standing on the base if the board maybe? Most participants do that 3 times a year or so.

Most of us drive 30,000 miles a year.
Its the reason you always see the traffic fatality number drop when gas prices spike. Not a decrease in total driver but a decrease in miles driven.
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:59 PM   #225 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by EastCoastChris View Post
You may ride 5-10 miles a day max.


Even when I used to board in Ontario all the time I was still averaging 40+ km a day. My best day so far is 82 km last spring. I would say my MINIMUM day is 25 km!!!

Anyway, this thread needs to take another direction. Somebody post some yoga pants please I'm running out of material!
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:40 PM   #226 (permalink)
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I'd like to hear from a expert on this

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Old 03-18-2013, 02:51 PM   #227 (permalink)
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next year,helmet...had a few close calls, and actually a few key posts on this thread helped me decide, mostly for fam, obligations, etc..not fear
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:12 PM   #228 (permalink)
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I think you might want to take note of something here. In the six years of moderating and admining this site, I have seen these same threads crop up year after year and we usually see 2 to 3 a year and in EVERY case they have had to be locked because it is ALWAYS the helmet evangelicals who attack and insult anyone who dares express an opinion that as an adult they have the right to choose to not wear a helmet. These people just cant stand it and ALWAYS attack. All I have EVER seen from the opposition is the desire to just be left the hell alone and yes they have called these people helmet nazis and I happen to agree. Some of these people get so damn bent out of shape because they cant convert someone they become fascist in nature.

When they cant convert by insults and attacks and brow beating, their next step is ALWAYS to try to get laws passed that force people to comply with their opinions. If that isn't Fascist and Nazism I don't know what is. Then when called Fascists and Nazis, these people freak out and play the victim role.

Sorry if I lack the patience for this shit. After dealing with it over and over and over in every damn helmet thread, I am sick of it. Not to mention that a real personal pet peeve of mine is people who can`t mind their own business and control freaks. I loath busy bodies and control freaks with a passion This entire country would be so much better off if people would just mind their own business and stop trying to control other people. At least a large part of this fanatical fervor around helmet use is based solely of control freaks trying to satisfy their pathological need to control other people. I hate it and I hate these people.

This thread went to absolute shit once again at post 157:

Post 157

This is what I have been talking to Mr. Eastside about. Why people cant express their opinion and he is by no means an exception here, without this kind of vitriol escapes me. They always say the same thing too, "I don't really care what you do, I am just pointing out how stupid your are". Really? If a person doesn't care, then why the angry tone? Why the need to control that other person?

Anyway, that is why I am so done with these threads and I may in fact takes Marshal`s suggestion and close this one too. We are going to have a talk in the admin lounge about this and maybe put a moratorium on these helmet discussion because not one has ever had a good ending. We got rid of the politics section for this reason.

In the time being, people need to understand a few things. There has literally never been one single person posting an opinion that helmets should not be worn. Almost everyone alive understands the benefits of wearing one and no one really needs convincing. Even those who either always wear a helmet or selectively wear one are all sick and tired of the damn preaching. Just shut up already, we get it, just stop and mind your own damn business. As I said earlier, all this incessant preaching does for some is galvanize their resolve to never wear one because they don't want to give into a bunch of damn control freaks. We are at a point where the preaching is having the opposite effect.

So, new rule goes into effect right now. talk helmets all you want, compare brands, review them, whatever. If someone asks whether they should or shouldn't wear a helmet, give them your advice but do it politely and not with the attitude. If a counter opinion is given, leave it alone; its not your place to attack or counter an opinion given. Now, from here on out any more of this insulting, calling people idiots or stupid will get this thread locked and the user will be given a 30 day ban. I am done with reading all of these insults and personal attacks.
The reason some people (myself included) want a law passed regarding helmet use is due to the social implications of head injuries, not the desire to "control" people. That is absurd paranoia.

Let's say Snowboarder X is out on the mountain one day, falls, and sustains a head injury. Let's say it's a traumatic brain injury and that it will limit Mr. X in terms of his cognitive ability for the rest of his life. His health insurance company or his parents' health insurance company is only going to pay a portion of what he needs in terms of care. It is not going to pay benefits to cover 24 hour care, vocational rehabilitation, physical rehabilitation, speech pathology, etc.

To the extent that the insurance company now has humongous bills to cover for Mr. X, how do you think they do it? They pass the cost of it onto everyone else that has the same health insurance. When you require THAT much medical care, we, as a society, pay for each other in the form of higher premiums. The effect may be miniscule if you look at it on a small scale, but if you aggregate all of the head injuries and the cost of care associated with those injuries over a lifetime and then compare that with baseline health insurance premium prices, you'd see a substantial difference.

The best analogy, really, is seatbelts in a motor vehicle. It wasn't always legally required to wear your seatbelt. Some people wore them, some people didn't. Most didn't, in fact. And what happened? Over time, car insurance companies studied accidents, injuries and fatalities and found that those who weren't wearing seatbelts suffered far worse injuries. So they worked in tandem with the car manufacturers, the federal government and state government to ensure that seatbelts would be required. The result wasn't an across-the-board elimination on injuries or fatalities, of course. But the rate of driver-hours to severe injuries is much lower in the seatbelt era. Fewer people get hurt, they get hurt less severely and our car insurance premiums aren't as high as they would be if seatbelts weren't legally required.

That's fascism? That's naziism? No sir, it's not. That's called progress.
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:55 PM   #229 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastChris View Post
Driving is not more dangerous than snow sports and the "by particpant" metric is a rediculous metric. You may ride 5-10 miles a day max. 90 minutes of actually standing on the base if the board maybe? Most participants do that 3 times a year or so.

Most of us drive 30,000 miles a year.
Its the reason you always see the traffic fatality number drop when gas prices spike. Not a decrease in total driver but a decrease in miles driven.
You should compare with driving a bike, where you are as exposed as riding a board. Not in a car. Would you ride a bike without helmet?
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:05 PM   #230 (permalink)
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When I was a kid, nobody wore a helmet to ride bicycles unless it was a special needs kid. And we did all kinds of dangerous sh*t on bicycles and fell off many, many times.

Today, you almost never see a kid riding a bike without a helmet? Why?

Two reasons:

1) The law. Some states and municipalities require that bicycle riders under a certain age wear a helmet. And it's not because they want to "control" people. It's because they want to prevent traumatic brain injuries.

2) People are smarter and more conscientious today than they were 20 years ago and helmet technology has progressed to the point where helmets are light, durable, comfortable and extremely effective.
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