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To wear or not to wear a Helm?

58K views 333 replies 150 participants last post by  snowyc 
#1 ·
Just interested in freestyle riders thoughts on using helmets. I'm a pure freerider who hasn't had much experience with jumping/jibbing other than backcountry kickers into deeeeep pow, so I never wore a helmet, even though my mom bought me one about 12 years ago, lol. Do you guys bring your helmets along just for riding 'park' or no helmet use? I did not like the feel of a helmet on my head when I tried it way back in the day. Plus, the helmet was noticeably colder! Feel like I need to yell FREEEEEEEEEEEEDOM from the top of my lungs like William Wallace when I was wearing one. However, I do know that park riding is more deadly to your lightbulb...
I should note that despite getting into more freestyle oriented riding this winter, if it snows, I'll be riding pow, not in the park :p
Wanna protect my head while in the park, but don't exactly wanna lug a helmet around with me on my pack, already enough crap in there!

My question is, what are your thoughts on helmet use in respect to freestyle riding.
 
#201 ·
I always where mine park or not. It makes me feel comfortable going outside of my normal range of things I try. Now when not hitting park you may think what can happen well this year my 3 friends and I went on a boarding trip. 3 of us hit park and the other guy would just cruise and bomb a couple hills. He was pretty experienced with handling speed, but one time he just caught an edge and had to go to the hospital. He had broken his collar bone and gotten a concussion. Ya the collar bone thing would of happened but if he had worn a helmet then when the ski patrol asked him where he lived he would probably actually be able to answer. But overall it's a choice.
 
#202 · (Edited)
Lastly, don`t kid yourself about helmets. Too many people think of these things as some sort of magic talisman that makes you invincible and as a bonus wards off evil. Most helmets are rated for under 15 MPH and an impact more than that makes the helmet increasingly ineffective. If you are riding at 25 MPH, which is really slow for any intermediate rider, and you slam your head to the ice or hit a tree, you are getting a concussion helmet or not.
If you hit a solid object with your head at 35mph, you are likely dead - helmet or not. But, if you crash on an icy slope, the helmet doesn't have to absorb your movement speed, it primarily has to absorb the fall component. I.e. if your head falls 2m (you topple over), it accelerates to 14mph.
The concussion is caused by the sudden stop and the brain slamming into the skull. This still happens with a helmet.
Not really. The helmet is designed to cushion the 'sudden stop' - make it not so sudden - and absorb impact energy.

Excerpt from an old Ski Canada Magazine article, "The Science Behind Helmets":

An insight as to why this study found a difference in patterns of death as a function of helmet utilization can be found in the following study. A simulation using a 50th percentile male anthropometric device (Scher, Richards and Carhart, 2005) was done of a snowboarder going 30 kph, catching an edge and falling headfirst onto soft snow, icy snow and a fixed object (a 28-cm upright wooden post). This simulation was done to assess the effect of wearing a helmet or not under the three different impact conditions. The helmet in question met the requirements of ASTM F2040. [...] This study found that if the impact is onto a soft-snow surface, both the measured g-loads (under 100 g) and the computed HIC values (less than 220) are well within acceptable limits regardless of whether or not a helmet is used. When the impact was onto simulated hard, icy snow, the helmet reduced the average measured g-load from 329 to 162, and the HIC value from 2,235 to 965. When the impact was against the fixed object, the helmet reduced the values from 696 to 333, and the HIC from 12,185 to 3,299.

The study concluded that under the circumstances of impact with soft snow, the use or non-use of the helmet had no significant effect. In the matter of the impact with a solid fixed object resembling a tree, while the use of a helmet was associated with a significant reduction in both the g-load and the HIC, the likely outcome remained that of a fatal injury— with or without the use of a helmet. With an impact on icy snow, the use of a helmet could be the difference between a significant head injury (possibly life-threatening) and a minor head injury.


There is a huge difference between helmets, even if they are certified. The standards allow something like 250g - 300g deceleration. Above 100g, chances are you will get a concussion. Above 300g, chances are you will have fractured head.

There is a large number number of studies that show that helmets do reduce head injuries for snowboarders. A lot of people seem to think they will perform miracles - which they clearly don't.

While I do wear a helmet for boarding (I've hit my head a few times in soft snow, fortunately never on hard pack - knock on wood), I don't use a bicycle helmet. IMHO, there isn't enough evidence that bicycle helmets do something useful.
 
#205 ·
While I do wear a helmet for boarding (I've hit my head a few times in soft snow, fortunately never on hard pack - knock on wood), I don't use a bicycle helmet. IMHO, there isn't enough evidence that bicycle helmets do something useful.
There might not be enough evidence, but I saw this while I was watching Discovery channel about James Cracknell, who got fucked up while doing an attempt do cycle, swim, run and row from LA to NY in 16 days. This is from wikipedia:

"On 20 July 2010, Cracknell was hit from behind by a petrol tanker whilst cycling during an attempt to cycle, row, run and swim from Los Angeles to New York within 16 days. The accident happened at around 5.30am on a quiet stretch of road outside Winslow, Arizona. He has attributed his survival to the fact he was wearing a cycle helmet at the time, which was "shorn in two". In the crash he suffered a contre-coup injury to the frontal lobes of his brain. He was "fully kitted out" by sponsors including the manufacturer of his helmet. He is now back at home with his family, although his recovery may never be complete. In 2012 Cracknell and his wife wrote Touching Distance about his life before and after his brain injury, which has left him with epilepsy and a changed personality (including a short temper)."

I don't use a cycling helmet myself, probably because I got my own car and almost never take a bike out anymore. But even if so, I wouldn't really use a helmet anyway. For snowboarding I do use my helmet, because I feel a bit safer with it and it has speakers in it for music hehe.
 
#203 ·
Hey some helmets on some people (myself included) look gay as fuck! Cant stand the look of that piece of shit on my head. Makes my head sweat and its harder to hear what is around me.

BUT...Ive gotten so used to it that I would feel really weird without it. In fact...takes me longer to get the beanie/goggle combo comfortable for the ride...only to have it blow off my head screaming down a double black. I'm done with NOT wearing helmets.

I'm a bigger dude so the thing really does look like shit on my head, but I don't really care. What it does do is deflect branches, other peoples boards if I eat shit in front of them or get taken out by an elitist skier.

So...I will always have mine, and as bad as it looks, have never heard anyone say...whoa...that looks gay as fuck. Then again I cant really hear outta that thing very well. Enjoy.
 

Attachments

#204 ·
So many insults....why?

Here is the deal with this continual argument. The problem here is the preaching and the name calling. Some in the pro helmet camp take on an almost evangelic fervor about it that is just going to piss people off. It`s like the new born again Christian or new non smoker who seems to be on some mission to save the world. In every one of these threads that pop up over and over and over again, year after year after year after year, its always the same. The pro helmet evangilist resorts to calling everyone else dumb, stupid, idiot, moron, etc. This is NOT how you are going to win anyone over. In all of these arguments over the years I have not seen a case wear a non helmet person has called the helmet advocate names. This is just like the God freaks who get nasty and mean when the atheist does not agree with them on the subject of religion.

Being in the profession of snowsports, we talk a lot about this issue and quite frankly, almost everyone is sick and tired of the helmet preachers who really need to get over themselves and just stop it; its fucking annoying as hell. I don't think there is a single person out there that doesn't get the benefits of helmet use but this constant barrage of helmet, helmet, helmet, helmet gets fucking old. What the helmet evangelist doesn't seem to get is that by proselytizing non stop, they are actually creating Resistance to helmet use in the same way that in many cases, nagging a smoker to quit will actually make them more determined not to.

Think about it. Look at this thread as an example. In the 5 years of admining this forum, I cannot remember ever seeing a thread started by someone who doesn't wear a helmet, preaching the evils of helmet use or making fun of people wearing helmets. On the other hand we have on average 2 or 3 of these "wear your helmet" threads a year. After awhile it just gets fucking old.

What also gets old is the repeated anecdotal stories about how a helmet saved this person`s life or prevented that person`s concussion or death. Fact of the matter is that even without helmet use, skiing and riding is actually statistically a very safe sport. You are hundreds of times more likely to receive a head injury in the car crash on the way to or from the mountain.

If a person does not want to wear a helmet, it is no one else`s business and it is not anyone`s place to be preaching about it. As an adult, capable of my own risk assessment I can determine for myself whether I choose to wear or not wear a helmet and I don't need some do gooder acting like my personal nanny. Sorry, but the proselytizing is a form of butting into other people`s business and it is both intrusive and rude.

That is why people get testy over this constant preaching. We all get it. We all "should" be wearing a helmet. If we are not already doing so it is not because the helmet evangelists hasn't spread the good news; its because we made a choice not to and the preaching is only going to turn people off.

I wear a helmet sometimes bu to be honest, I don't more than I do. Have I taken some nasty falls? Yep. Have I hit my head? Very rarely and in fact I hit my head way more with a helmet on. Well, I used to until I switched to the lighter weight, lower profile Capix and Sandbox helmet. I find the standard egg head helmets have a big enough profile that I hit more shit with my head because of the helmet.

Lastly, don`t kid yourself about helmets. Too many people think of these things as some sort of magic talisman that makes you invincible and as a bonus wards off evil. Most helmets are rated for under 15 MPH and an impact more than that makes the helmet increasingly ineffective. If you are riding at 25 MPH, which is really slow for any intermediate rider, and you slam your head to the ice or hit a tree, you are getting a concussion helmet or not. The concussion is caused by the sudden stop and the brain slamming into the skull. This still happens with a helmet. The helmet is designed to protect the surface of the head from impact and they are very effective for that. Again, not discouraging helmet use, just reminding folks of facts. Too often I see people ride irresponsibly because the helmet gives them an inflated sense of security and as a result, do things that puts them in needless peril and it is because they are wearing the helmet that think they can do anything without consequence.

At any rate, carry on but lets cut the name calling and keep it civil.
Yes the disrespect and name calling here is uncalled for and bullshit. As for people preaching...they can fuck off. As I have said...I wear one. Looks gay, but who cares. Do I think you or anyone else should? Dont really care. Unless of course you are part of my family, then I might have something to say about it. Otherwise...rather you wouldnt because watching people on the board of shame gives me a chuckle. No matter the injury, and I laugh a little because, hey, it wasnt me this time!

For the stories...dont care either way. You know, some people even make those up. Hell even statistics are 46% bullshit, but sometimes a good reference point.
 
#206 · (Edited)
Fact of the matter is that even without helmet use, skiing and riding is actually statistically a very safe sport. You are hundreds of times more likely to receive a head injury in the car crash on the way to or from the mountain.
Snowolf, I think your basic point is that people shouldn't be mean, and I agree with that. But by the same token, the rhetoric on both sides should be fair. The part of your post quoted above I think is irresponsible. It is a completely unsubstantiated claim and has no basis in fact (unless you want to point to surveys or actual facts). Perhaps you are looking at statistics of overall numbers of accidents instead of per capita stats, as obviously a greater number of people drive cars per day than snowboard.

I don't have statistics, but speaking from my own experience, I know that head injuries resulting from snowboarding accidents are many times more likely than driving. I only started wearing a helmet about 8 years ago, less than half of my riding career. When I rode without a helmet, I routinely hit my head on the ground (most of my time was on the ice coast). I never got a concussion (that I know of), but I would often get insane headaches. This would happen at least once every 5 days of riding. My day was over when the headache became unbearable. My brother did get a concussion while snowboarding (along with a broken collar bone and shoulder), but he was never in a car accident. I also never hit my head when I was driving in nearly 20 years nor do I think it very likely.

I've seen this "driving is more dangerous than snowboarding" argument on here a number of times. I really think we need to dispel ourselves of this ridiculous notion in order to more fairly assess the actual risks. It's just not true.

But as to the merits of this thread, as with all internet bickering, one side inflates the arguments of the other, the other responds with insults and then everyone is making comparisons to Hitler and born again christians. I've seen it a hundred times.

From what I can tell, the two sides essentially come down to:

Anti-helmets: Adults are generally smart enough to appreciate the risks in the things they do and have the right to deny reasonable precautions despite their proven efficacy.

Pro-helmets: Helmets are demonstrably safer, non-obtrusive, and give me the warm fuzzies. I don't understand why someone would purposely put themselves at additional risk by not wearing one, but at the same time I desperately want everyone on the mountain to wear one because then I'll feel like less of a dork.

Maybe we can all agree on this, or something close, and move on.
 
#210 ·
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends

I seen you around for a long long time, ya
I really remembered you when you drink my wine

Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends

I seen you walkin' down in Chinatown
I called you but you could not look around

Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends

I bring my money to the welfare line
I see you standing in it every time

Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends

The color of your skin don't matter to me
As long as we can live in harmony

Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends

I'd kinda like to be the President
So I can show you how your money's spent

Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends

Sometimes I don't speak right
But yet I know what I'm talking about

Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends

I know you're workin' for the CIA
They wouldn't have you in the Ma-fi-a

Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends...
 
#211 · (Edited)
So many insults....why?

Here is the deal with this continual argument. The problem here is the preaching and the name calling. Some in the pro helmet camp take on an almost evangelic fervor about it that is just going to piss people off. It`s like the new born again Christian or new non smoker who seems to be on some mission to save the world. In every one of these threads that pop up over and over and over again, year after year after year after year, its always the same. The pro helmet evangilist resorts to calling everyone else dumb, stupid, idiot, moron, etc. This is NOT how you are going to win anyone over. In all of these arguments over the years I have not seen a case wear a non helmet person has called the helmet advocate names. This is just like the God freaks who get nasty and mean when the atheist does not agree with them on the subject of religion.

Being in the profession of snowsports, we talk a lot about this issue and quite frankly, almost everyone is sick and tired of the helmet preachers who really need to get over themselves and just stop it; its fucking annoying as hell. I don't think there is a single person out there that doesn't get the benefits of helmet use but this constant barrage of helmet, helmet, helmet, helmet gets fucking old. What the helmet evangelist doesn't seem to get is that by proselytizing non stop, they are actually creating Resistance to helmet use in the same way that in many cases, nagging a smoker to quit will actually make them more determined not to.

Think about it. Look at this thread as an example. In the 5 years of admining this forum, I cannot remember ever seeing a thread started by someone who doesn't wear a helmet, preaching the evils of helmet use or making fun of people wearing helmets. On the other hand we have on average 2 or 3 of these "wear your helmet" threads a year. After awhile it just gets fucking old.

What also gets old is the repeated anecdotal stories about how a helmet saved this person`s life or prevented that person`s concussion or death. Fact of the matter is that even without helmet use, skiing and riding is actually statistically a very safe sport. You are hundreds of times more likely to receive a head injury in the car crash on the way to or from the mountain.

If a person does not want to wear a helmet, it is no one else`s business and it is not anyone`s place to be preaching about it. As an adult, capable of my own risk assessment I can determine for myself whether I choose to wear or not wear a helmet and I don't need some do gooder acting like my personal nanny. Sorry, but the proselytizing is a form of butting into other people`s business and it is both intrusive and rude.

That is why people get testy over this constant preaching. We all get it. We all "should" be wearing a helmet. If we are not already doing so it is not because the helmet evangelists hasn't spread the good news; its because we made a choice not to and the preaching is only going to turn people off.
In all fairness SnoWolf , I've shown you immense respect I'm every thread in which we've communicated . I think I have every right to call someone out on being idiotic or making an idiotic statement. As I mentioned before, I really don't give a crap one way or the other if someone chooses to wear a helmet.. I'm a 27 year old adult who makes his own decisions and determined that whether I like the look and feel of a helmet or not, I feel that it is a simple and effective way to protect myself against avoidable head injury. If someone doesn't want to wear one, that is their perogative. What bothers me is the nonsensical and frankly idiotic reasonings behind it. To say that you (and I mean you in the general term) are above reproach and know your limits, so you don't need a helmet or any other number of frankly stupid arguments is the issue. As someone who puts alot of time and effort into promoting this sport, it's disappointing to me to hear that you think people who are pro-helmet take on some type of preaching role. Could it be that perhaps we want to set a better example for new riders coming into the sport ? Could it be that we have had enough close calls in our own lives that we feel it is prudent to share that information with others and hopefully they can avoid the same conclusion? Concussions, head injuries, etc. are a serious injury as recent medical studies have shown. Am I a dr or a scientist ? No, but I do understand common sense. I think that calling out someone's argument for or against helmets on the grounds of them making an idiotic statement is something is not only appropriate but necessary. You spend alot of time on this forum correcting misinformation - to say that someone is so good at snowboarding that they're immune to falling on their head is just stupid, and I think most would agree.
Also, as I mentioned, I've shown you a ton of respect and I DO respect you, but you set a precedent for personal attacks in the NS Fiberglass thread that is above and beyond what I've seen you call many people out for. I realize that as a moderator you can generally do what you want and I happen to be okay with that, but I think it's sort of self righteous to tell me that I'm being insulting by calling a duck a duck. I try not to be argumentative or rude without provocation and I don't post unless I feel that I can contribute in some way to the conversation.
I mean no disrespect by any of this, I just felt that I needed to say this. Not everyone will like what I have to say, but that is what a forum is for - discussion and debate and the sharing or knowledge ( and often misinformation.)

Like I said earlier in the thread and like Donutz agreed, we don't care if you choose to wear a helmet or not, but don't serve up some lame ass reason to everyone on a platter and not expect someone to call it out. I think you'd agree ?

Edit: one last thing , I didn't start this thread nor am I the only one who has tried to explain the benefits of wearing a helmet. I am simply a contributor to a topic that was started by someone else. If you'd like to PM me or talk in some way, ill bet you'd see that we are actually very much alike and on the same page.
 
#213 ·
I realize that as a moderator you can generally do what you want and I happen to be okay with that,
wait, i can do what I want???? OK, you are a chocolate bunny!

Just a point of clarification, Snowolf is an admin, although he does jump in when things get nuts. As a moderator I have more of a duty to try and be even-handed and not get involved -- which unfortunately I fail at regularly, being a passionate snowboarder. :)
 
#212 ·
I got my helmet last year, mainly because I wanted speakers in the ear pieces. I hate wearing earbuds and none of them fit my ears good, they're always slipping out. I've been boarding for 15years(damn...I'm getting old :( ) and never had any major injuries. Two weeks ago I got a mild concussion trying miller flips on a ~15' solid ice jump. First try went well, almost landed but under-rotated a bit and washed out. Second try I hit it with more speed, too much, threw it late and missed the hand drag completely, overshot the landing, over-rotated and whipped my head onto the ice. What happened after is a long story I might tell some other time, don't really remember any of it but the ski patrol and some locals at the hill filled me in, ended up at a hospital. To keep it short, I was supposed to fly out to St. Louis with my work for a trade show the next day. I missed that flight since I was released an hour before it was taking off, but I was able to fly out the next day and work the trade show. I had a headache for 3-4 days and for a week I was a bit out of it, it felt like I just got off a boat all day, just wobbly and dazed. Without a helmet I'm sure it would have been much worse, I might still be in the hospital.
 
#216 · (Edited)
Perhaps we ought to take this to PM or email, even phone if you'd prefer . I fully supported your dealing with that troll, and my post above yours in that thread basically echoed your sentiments exactly . The point was simply that as a forum member, it's incredibly difficult to determine what is and isn't appropriate as a response when it seems to change with each thread. I may have gone over the top with ETM, but I honestly feel that if a statement is idiotic, there's no reason not to say so. You're right, calling him an idiot may have been unnecessary, but a duck is a duck and a stupid statement is a stupid statement. I understand that as an admin and someone who has to moderate the forums you deal with a number of different circumstances , but I was and always am simply trying to contribute to a conversation. I don't go out of my way to attack someone, but I will also defend myself and my opinions. Also, I happen to find being called a helmet nazi incredibly offensive. Maybe as much or more so than you may find the word idiot offensive. Again, I don't expect you to, but if you took the time to talk to me personally, you may see that I am just being honest and thoughtful. I play devils advocate to provoke discussion , not argument. Some people take offense to that. That is their issue, not mine. You did ask me to tone down using the word idiot in reference to a person and I did, however I think calling something idiotic is in an entirely different context . I don't want to argue about this anymore or have any bad blood. As I mentioned earlier, I support and respect your opinions and the work you do... I wasn't calling you out because I don't agree, I was just saying that I'm clearly not a troll and that the way that thread ended made it unclear to me what is and isn't acceptable. I apologize if you took that as a personal attack as it wasn't intended as such .

I hope that we can let this argument die and that you and I can move forward from this. I enjoy this forum immensely and have learned alot from it, mostly from your posts.

(Btw, I'm Jewish and while the word nazi may not offend you , it does offend me to be caled a helmet nazi.. Rather than report the post and complain, I simply take it and spin it. We all handle things differently.)
 
#218 ·
I saw somewhere (Scientific American...NIH some other laymen's publication? ) that a meta study was recently published examining whether increased helmet use had any correlation with or causal relationship to increased injury rates related to increased risk taking behaviors. The meta study concluded no relationship.

I didn't read any more than the article on the abstract. Nor can I tell you about any of the populations studied in the individual studies reviewed. I just know I read it somewheres. I am in health stats but not public health or populational control. So this isnt exactly my bag. But I'm satisfied that research has been done on this issue. And I'm fairly confident that risks of helmets are negligable at best.
 
#221 ·
I saw somewhere (Scientific American...NIH some other laymen's publication? ) that a meta study was recently published examining whether increased helmet use had any correlation with or causal relationship to increased injury rates related to increased risk taking behaviors. The meta study concluded no relationship.
I certainly ride faster/more aggressive on hard pack/icy stuff since using a helmet. If it increases risk is debatable, since being more relaxed/not tensing up in shitty conditions improves control.
 
#219 ·
Snowolf, I appreciate your reply and would rather take this to PMs. There's things I'd like to say privately and I think that at this point your point and mine have both been made. Let me know if you're okay with this.
 
#222 ·
In Norway we are pretty good at wearing helmets, old and young, experienced and novice, one plank or two, from the park kid landing 25'ers with ease to the dad on the bunny hill putting his 4yr old on a pair of skis or snowboard for the first time.

we get a few die hards, 60yr old on their telemarks with pilot sun glasses and Norwegian wool knit sweater on to the once almost pro mother of three bombing the mountain on her slaloms as many times as she can before her Easter holiday is over.

Point is helmets are cool, and if your not wearing one then you either know your craft very well and are taking a calculated risk or think your better then you actually are and are horrible at counting the odds that are stacked against you...
 
#223 ·
Eastside,

You and anyone on this forum can PM anytime you want about anything.

I am not picking on you here per se but I was trying to deal with this on the road with an Iphone and just didn't have the ability to deal with all of your points. I am address this publicly because it is at the crux of my extreme frustration with these helmet threads and I will go into that next post.



For really not giving a crap, you sure are passionate about this. You have a "right" to have an opinion and to voice it yes. It has never been about your opinion, it has been about the delivery and you do NOT have a right to use any tone you feel like. That has been what I have been trying to tell everyone involved. This is not open for debate any longer. No one is going to be allowed to call people stupid, idiot or any other name simply because they hold an opinion that you fell is stupid or idiotic. You seem like a pretty sharp guy, you should have no problem finding a way to get your point across without being a dick to people. This is no longer just a friendly request nor is it meant to single you out this goes for everyone. No more insults and name calling period.





You need to learn way more about me and what I have said even in this thread. In the next post, I will direct you and others to specific posts wear I have advocated proper fitting helmets. You are also grossly misrepresenting what I have said here. I have clearly in multiple helmet threads thread over six years clearly stated that there is a HUGE difference between a helmet proponent and a" helmet nazi" or "helmet evangelical". There is a HUGE difference between offering up advice and preaching. I know you are smart enough to understand this. You are deliberately obfuscating here to bolster your argument and I am not buying it. And for your information, when I coach kids, I wear my helmet to "set a good example" even though we are not required to by our resort. Again, you need to get to know someone before jumping to conclusions.




Again though, It isn't the content, its your delivery that is the problem. It is perfectly acceptable to "correct misinformation" and I do it all of the time but there is a huge difference between this and preaching or nagging. Put the information out there, when able back it up with some sources (very helpful but not always necessary) and leave it at that. I know you have heard the saying that you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink. Same thing here. You did your "duty", you put the information out, now leave it be and quit preaching. That is all people are saying. The problem is and it was said in another thread, when you keep on, it comes across as having to "win" the argument at all costs.




Don`t worry, you are in no danger of anything yet. I can even accept that you don't mean to disrespect people but you have to understand that it does not come across that way when you call someone an idiot. No one is going to take kindly to that. It starts fights and once you say that, nothing you say after will even register with the person so you sabotaged everything you claim to be wanting to accomplished but your delivery.

Like I said, you are still cool with the admin and mod team right now. You are just kind of the catalyst that has brought this entire helmet issue back to the forefront again and we are looking at making some changes about how these topics will be handled in the future because in six years, every single helmet thread has ended in a shit show. So again, you are not being singled out even though it seems like it. Plenty before you have had issues and we have banned many people for going apeshit over helmets.

Feel free to PM with any questions. Not pissed at you in any way, just exasperated with this entire subject.
Thanks SnoWolf, I understand your points and will keep them in mind for future reference. I guess too many years on forums has made me respond in certain ways that I shouldn't.

Here's my response to this thread :

Hey guys I wear a helmet because I hit my head a few times and remembered the story about Liam Neeson's wife dying and figured it wasn't worth the risk. It doesn't bother me much to wear it once I got used to it. To each their own. :)
 
#224 ·
Driving is not more dangerous than snow sports and the "by particpant" metric is a rediculous metric. You may ride 5-10 miles a day max. 90 minutes of actually standing on the base if the board maybe? Most participants do that 3 times a year or so.

Most of us drive 30,000 miles a year.
Its the reason you always see the traffic fatality number drop when gas prices spike. Not a decrease in total driver but a decrease in miles driven.
 
#228 ·
I think you might want to take note of something here. In the six years of moderating and admining this site, I have seen these same threads crop up year after year and we usually see 2 to 3 a year and in EVERY case they have had to be locked because it is ALWAYS the helmet evangelicals who attack and insult anyone who dares express an opinion that as an adult they have the right to choose to not wear a helmet. These people just cant stand it and ALWAYS attack. All I have EVER seen from the opposition is the desire to just be left the hell alone and yes they have called these people helmet nazis and I happen to agree. Some of these people get so damn bent out of shape because they cant convert someone they become fascist in nature.

When they cant convert by insults and attacks and brow beating, their next step is ALWAYS to try to get laws passed that force people to comply with their opinions. If that isn't Fascist and Nazism I don't know what is. Then when called Fascists and Nazis, these people freak out and play the victim role.

Sorry if I lack the patience for this shit. After dealing with it over and over and over in every damn helmet thread, I am sick of it. Not to mention that a real personal pet peeve of mine is people who can`t mind their own business and control freaks. I loath busy bodies and control freaks with a passion This entire country would be so much better off if people would just mind their own business and stop trying to control other people. At least a large part of this fanatical fervor around helmet use is based solely of control freaks trying to satisfy their pathological need to control other people. I hate it and I hate these people.

This thread went to absolute shit once again at post 157:

Post 157

This is what I have been talking to Mr. Eastside about. Why people cant express their opinion and he is by no means an exception here, without this kind of vitriol escapes me. They always say the same thing too, "I don't really care what you do, I am just pointing out how stupid your are". Really? If a person doesn't care, then why the angry tone? Why the need to control that other person?

Anyway, that is why I am so done with these threads and I may in fact takes Marshal`s suggestion and close this one too. We are going to have a talk in the admin lounge about this and maybe put a moratorium on these helmet discussion because not one has ever had a good ending. We got rid of the politics section for this reason.

In the time being, people need to understand a few things. There has literally never been one single person posting an opinion that helmets should not be worn. Almost everyone alive understands the benefits of wearing one and no one really needs convincing. Even those who either always wear a helmet or selectively wear one are all sick and tired of the damn preaching. Just shut up already, we get it, just stop and mind your own damn business. As I said earlier, all this incessant preaching does for some is galvanize their resolve to never wear one because they don't want to give into a bunch of damn control freaks. We are at a point where the preaching is having the opposite effect.

So, new rule goes into effect right now. talk helmets all you want, compare brands, review them, whatever. If someone asks whether they should or shouldn't wear a helmet, give them your advice but do it politely and not with the attitude. If a counter opinion is given, leave it alone; its not your place to attack or counter an opinion given. Now, from here on out any more of this insulting, calling people idiots or stupid will get this thread locked and the user will be given a 30 day ban. I am done with reading all of these insults and personal attacks.
The reason some people (myself included) want a law passed regarding helmet use is due to the social implications of head injuries, not the desire to "control" people. That is absurd paranoia.

Let's say Snowboarder X is out on the mountain one day, falls, and sustains a head injury. Let's say it's a traumatic brain injury and that it will limit Mr. X in terms of his cognitive ability for the rest of his life. His health insurance company or his parents' health insurance company is only going to pay a portion of what he needs in terms of care. It is not going to pay benefits to cover 24 hour care, vocational rehabilitation, physical rehabilitation, speech pathology, etc.

To the extent that the insurance company now has humongous bills to cover for Mr. X, how do you think they do it? They pass the cost of it onto everyone else that has the same health insurance. When you require THAT much medical care, we, as a society, pay for each other in the form of higher premiums. The effect may be miniscule if you look at it on a small scale, but if you aggregate all of the head injuries and the cost of care associated with those injuries over a lifetime and then compare that with baseline health insurance premium prices, you'd see a substantial difference.

The best analogy, really, is seatbelts in a motor vehicle. It wasn't always legally required to wear your seatbelt. Some people wore them, some people didn't. Most didn't, in fact. And what happened? Over time, car insurance companies studied accidents, injuries and fatalities and found that those who weren't wearing seatbelts suffered far worse injuries. So they worked in tandem with the car manufacturers, the federal government and state government to ensure that seatbelts would be required. The result wasn't an across-the-board elimination on injuries or fatalities, of course. But the rate of driver-hours to severe injuries is much lower in the seatbelt era. Fewer people get hurt, they get hurt less severely and our car insurance premiums aren't as high as they would be if seatbelts weren't legally required.

That's fascism? That's naziism? No sir, it's not. That's called progress.
 
#230 ·
When I was a kid, nobody wore a helmet to ride bicycles unless it was a special needs kid. And we did all kinds of dangerous sh*t on bicycles and fell off many, many times.

Today, you almost never see a kid riding a bike without a helmet? Why?

Two reasons:

1) The law. Some states and municipalities require that bicycle riders under a certain age wear a helmet. And it's not because they want to "control" people. It's because they want to prevent traumatic brain injuries.

2) People are smarter and more conscientious today than they were 20 years ago and helmet technology has progressed to the point where helmets are light, durable, comfortable and extremely effective.
 
#231 ·
i think that is why its so much easier for kids today to accept helmets for everything...biking, riding, skating, walking down the street

i've got a skate helmet, but i hate it, never wear it...not advocating anything probably a good idea for skating...i just think that regardless any arguments for social good, etc..it still comes down to a choice
 
#232 ·
I propose a simple effective test:

TEST 1 - Put a helmet on, slam your head on the nearest wall as hard as you can. Write down the results.

TEST 2 - Remove the helmet and slam your head on the nearest wall as har as you can. Write down the results.

Compare the results and damage. Decide which option is better. :blink:
 
#234 ·
It's definitely a choice and I'm cool with it being a choice while it remains un-regulated.

One day, however, it may become regulated. The health insurance companies might say "enough is enough," and lobby Congress and state legislatures and push to get mandatory helmet laws passed in the states that have ski resorts. And if that day comes, it's not a loss of "freedom" or "control" by the government. A loss of freedom would be if the government kidnapped you, transported you to a prison camp and made you break bricks 20 hours a day, subsisting on food and rice mush. See, e.g., North Korea.

I think people get a bit melodramatic when it comes to the erosion of our "freedoms." Freedom doesn't mean the ability to do anything you want, damn all the consequences to yourself and to others. Freedom is about doing what makes you happy, but while also being responsible to yourself and to others.
 
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